Orange Tree Model E Rhodes

wst3

Lunatic - it's really that simple
Moderator
I downloaded it earlier today, and only had a few minutes to play it, but I have to say I'm really pleased.

It is a specific sound, but one I do not yet have. I've thought (a lot) about Keyscape, and some day I will probably buy it, but for now I have a whole new "flavor" of Rhodes. And I like it.

I will check for the reported issues.
 

Virtuoso

Socially Distant Member
I'm not sure whether it's really an 'issue' or just the nature of the beast given that this is vintage gear for which the 'character' is the main attraction. It's most noticeable on lower velocities - if you play Orange Tree's own demo MIDI file of 'Song for Ori', the hiss is very obvious.

The Keyscape one is also quite noisy but does have some noise reduction settings built in to mitigate the hiss. The Canterbury and Scarbee ones though are perfectly clean, so I don't know what they did differently to keep the signal/noise ratio to an acceptable level.
 

Virtuoso

Socially Distant Member
To be clear, I'm talking about the MIDI file that you get when you buy the instrument, not the mixed multi-instrument demo on the product page. It's just the e-piano solo and it's played very lightly, which is what brought the hiss to my attention.
 
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Ashermusic

Senior Member
I downloaded it earlier today, and only had a few minutes to play it, but I have to say I'm really pleased.

It is a specific sound, but one I do not yet have. I've thought (a lot) about Keyscape, and some day I will probably buy it, but for now I have a whole new "flavor" of Rhodes. And I like it.

I will check for the reported issues.
Again, not knocking it, because Greg is really good, but I just don’t hear anything there that I cannot get really close to with the ones I have. If I felt that I needed EXACTLY that sound, maybe I would go for it.
 

wst3

Lunatic - it's really that simple
Moderator
Again, not knocking it, because Greg is really good, but I just don’t hear anything there that I cannot get really close to with the ones I have. If I felt that I needed EXACTLY that sound, maybe I would go for it.
You must have tools that I am missing, I can't get "that" sound with anything other than AAS Lounge Lizard, and sometimes close is not close enough?

That and I am a bit of a Rhodes junkie. If memory serves you were more of a Wurli fan?

I still find libraries like the Tubed Rhodes from Sampletekk or the Cantebury and EP73 from Soniccouture to be more fun to play. Time will tell on this one...
 

Ashermusic

Senior Member
I started with Wurlitzers but then played a ‘60’s era silver top Rhodes suitcase for years. And in studios, I played a boatload of stage pianos and suitcases, including the e-Rhodes. And I am guessing you don’t have the NeoSoul Keys Rhodes?
 

wst3

Lunatic - it's really that simple
Moderator
I started with Wurlitzers but then played a ‘60’s era silver top Rhodes suitcase for years. And in studios, I played a boatload of stage pianos and suitcases, including the e-Rhodes. And I am guessing you don’t have the NeoSoul Keys Rhodes?
Hey Jay - thanks for chiming (see what I did there) in...

Well if you played the real thing you probably have a pretty good idea of what it is supposed to sound like! I can only judge based on recordings, which introduces quite a few new variables??

You are quite correct, I do not have the Neosoul Keys. Again based on demos it sounds (and we all know about describing sound!) cloudy or muddy to me. That may well have more to do with the styles in which it is demonstrated?

I spent a scant few minutes with it again this morning, and while that particular sound is not something I'm often chasing, I think this comes closest. I found it fun to play (never underestimate the "fun" factor) and even a little bit inspiring. I am not a keyboard player by any stretch, but I found myself in unusual harmonic territory, which almost pays for the library right there<G>!
 

Ashermusic

Senior Member
Hey Jay - thanks for chiming (see what I did there) in...

Well if you played the real thing you probably have a pretty good idea of what it is supposed to sound like! I can only judge based on recordings, which introduces quite a few new variables??

You are quite correct, I do not have the Neosoul Keys. Again based on demos it sounds (and we all know about describing sound!) cloudy or muddy to me. That may well have more to do with the styles in which it is demonstrated?

I spent a scant few minutes with it again this morning, and while that particular sound is not something I'm often chasing, I think this comes closest. I found it fun to play (never underestimate the "fun" factor) and even a little bit inspiring. I am not a keyboard player by any stretch, but I found myself in unusual harmonic territory, which almost pays for the library right there<G>!
Actually, I may like V-Tines now even more than NeoSoul.

DISCLAIMER: In no way am I attempting to knock this library or discourage anyone from buying it. If I did not already have solutions that I am happy with, it would be at or near the top of my list.
 
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Virtuoso

Socially Distant Member
Here's a comparison between the E Rhodes, Keyscape LA Rhodes, Scarbee EP-88S and Sonicccouture Canterbury Suitcase. Level matched as closely as possible with all effects off so this is just the naked sound of the pianos. Also attached is a spectrogram, so you can see the relative levels of hiss between each instrument (the hiss shows up as a cloud of purple dots).


All_Rhodes_1.jpg
 

sostenuto

Big NKS Fan !
THX !! SEE your point, do not HEAR your point re. hiss. Oldheimers ?? Likely hang in there with OTS E Electric much based on the instrument itself. Orange Slices help as well .... :whistling:
Luv the 70 Presets to set a tone to work from.
Appreciate your extra effort to help choose ! :thumbsup:
 

BezO

The Artisan
I was hoping for multi-output for DI, amp/mic & room. This would be a no brainer if so. I'll have to think about. Sounds really good though.
 

Alex C

Member
I always return to never-old Scarbee RSP 73 which I have since the beginning of time. Somehow that's the Rhodes sound I want. This one sounds like it's pretty close and sometimes it sounds great but there are times when I think it sounds thin, especially in the upper mid region, when you make it 'twang'.
 

CasiomanChris

New Member
I bought it earlier today. It's nice if you want 'that sound' but, like the Keyscape Rhodes, quite hissy (actually, make that very hissy) at lower velocities. Scarbee EP-88s and Canterbury Suitcase don't have this issue.

There's also a sudden transition between Bb3 and B3 where the harder tine hits you in the head! It can make some rogue notes stand out abruptly when you're playing in that range.

I also think that it is not usable. Way too much hiss/noise!
I was very excited when I heard the demos. I bought it right away. Now I'm very disappointed.

The sudden transition is due to the "bell" function. You can turn off the "bell register" at the advanced settings.
 

Virtuoso

Socially Distant Member
I also think that it is not usable. Way too much hiss/noise!
I was very excited when I heard the demos. I bought it right away. Now I'm very disappointed.
The first thing I did when I got was run it through the UA Tri-Chorus (as per earlier in the thread) and was shocked at the amount of hiss I was hearing, so I started switching everything off to isolate where it was coming from. I was surprised when it turned out to be from the instrument itself.

Especially since the OT copy specifically says "Each key was sampled with 18 velocity layers, with each note’s natural decay into complete silence." The decay has a ton of hiss - it sounds like someone was frying snakes when the recording was done!

I checked the refund policy and...

Unfortunately due to the digital nature of our products, we can not offer any refunds if your order indicates that your purchase has been downloaded. By purchasing and downloading our products, you acknowledge that you have read and understood the product description and all product requirements and prerequisites, and therefore agree with this Refund Policy.
So sadly the only way to find out that it's unusable is by invalidating your refund entitlement. :thumbsdown:
 

sostenuto

Big NKS Fan !
Surprised and puzzled by lack of responses here by @ gregjazz. Long time purchaser of all OTS libs, and many direct interactions with OTS. This is not Greg S, and believing he is deeply involved in sorting this clear issue, posted by several. I'm hanging in for now ! :thumbsup:
 

JamieLang

Active Member
Can I ask a question about the "noise issue"? I feel like I asked this elsewhere and didn't get an answer...is there no dynamics control? Basically mapping velocity to LEVEL? IE--not the velocity CURVE mapping your controller to VI input...but, the noise is obviously in low level samples--as it WOULD be without them being edited to remove that--but, they should also BE low in volume, but examples I've heard sounds like you kiss the key and it's as loud as smacking it--thus, the noise comes and goes because the natural response has been removed. I watched the intro video and didn't SEE a setting...but, it seems like that's the simplest answer--that everyone testing it set the dynamics to where it feels like the real thing...and thus the noise is 15-20db lower.
 

Virtuoso

Socially Distant Member
I'm not sure if I'm understanding your suggestion correctly, but there is a velocity curve editor on the 'Advanced' page, so you could set it to only trigger the louder samples where the signal/noise ratio is better, at the expense of losing some of the expressiveness of the 18 velocity layers.

The hiss is most noticeable when playing extended soft glissandi with a sustain pedal, but isn't that pretty much the style of music this piano is for - ie 80s ballads?
 

JamieLang

Active Member
Misunderstanding--the velocity curve is the mapping to input. I mean the equivalent of the "Velo(city) Sens(itivity)" knob in Keyscape...or the "Options: To Level" on the Canterbury. The point is the reason the noise is distracting is because the soft velocity samples are playing back 20db louder than natural. This is Orange Tree's default mapping of velocity to VOLUME....

The velocity CURVE is just altering the curve of your input INTO that sample level mapping. Really jsut adjusting for your controller's response. The sound design of "how dynamic should it play" is done at a lower level.

edit: I looked on Canterbury for what their knob does...it changes a modulator in the amp section 1-100% velocity(mod source) to volume (result). I think there's a lower level mapping because applying that to Scarbee's doesn't really do much until you REDUCE it from 100%. So, Soniccouture has mapped it very dynamic and defaulted that knob to lower to reduce it for whatever marketing reason companies do that. So, I'd open up the Orange Tree and see if it's already set to 100% or added as a modulator at all. If it's there and on 40% or something--set it to 100% and try again.
 
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