On the Fence About Spitfire Studio Woodwinds

Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by Apostate, Apr 19, 2019.

  1. jaketanner

    jaketanner Senior Member

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    I was just about to ask him for a benchmark sample. But true, if you are comparing samples straight against live musicians, then no wonder. But sample against sample, I think I can definitely make SF work.
     
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  2. re-peat

    re-peat Senior Member

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    That’s not for me to say, is it? I simply give my opinion, whether someone finds it useful or helpful, or not, is entirely up to him/her. Take from it what you want. Or not. I don't care.

    Look, all I’m doing here is give a Neon some added material which might help him/her to arrive at a decision on how to proceed. What he/she does it with it, again, entirely his/her choice.

    Something wrong with that? And why you’re yapping anyway? You yourself have thanked me more than once in the past few days for my input, so … what’s your problem all of a sudden?

    I also don’t see why my dislike for most of what’s out there virtual-woodwind-wise should disqualify me from having an opinion on this mock bass clarinet. I can’t help it that it confirms my dislike, can I? Wish it didn’t, but it does.

    By the way, if your memory wasn’t so pedantically selective as it seems to be, I think you’ll find I also said: “Here and there, there are a few isolated patches that I can work with, and sometimes, one of the smaller libraries may contain a nice surprise or two”.

    Jeezes, Pars. You're a sad character sometimes.
    _
     
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  3. Denkii

    Denkii Member

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  4. ism

    ism Senior Member

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    Ok, so adding to the litany, attacks on: memory, pedantry and "sadness" (what ever that means) to the insults directed at music taste, mental age ... then there's a few I can't remember of the top of my head ... and some more were kind of oblique ... then there was something about bunnies ... and of course reading level.

    Time for a "musicians berating musicians" sub form?

    But the seriously answer is that context matters. For instance, things like price matters - not to yourself, as you note, but to most of us. Understanding that you effectively claim you would critique the library as savagely - and correct if I'm wrong - if it were a $30000 bespoke library, than for what it actually is, is quite a helpful piece of context in parsing your contributions through our own contexts.

    And in all of this we all have our own contexts in which we work, and in which our opinions form and through which we attempt to understand all the other opinions flying around here, and the contexts in which they form.

    So no one is unappreciative of the value of your opinions, and no one is accusing you of maliciously providing bad examples (though no one is accusing you of putting an excessive amount of love and attention into your examples either). And I don't even see anyone being unappreciative for the light you have shone, quite legitimately, on the flaws of these libraries.

    But the broader context here is that other people are having a range of very, very different, and often much better experiences. It doesn't make you wrong, because of course these experience are formed in different contexts.

    And I completely respect that you bring a superior level of skill and experience to this discussion. But it doesn't make these other opinions invalid. In much the same way that sometimes a composition written by a mere mortal can - in practice, and in a certain context - be more valuable to study that something by Beethoven.

    And you don't need to be interested in understanding the contexts of anyone else here. Or in understanding how these contexts are different from your own. And if the opinions of those of us with positive experience with these libraries don't make any sense to you in your own context, that's totally cool. And clearly don't need the insights of most of us here.

    But if you're not interesting in understanding where other people or coming from in how they form their own, different, opinions - which understandably might not make much sense within your own context - then hey, how about easing up on the steady stream of insults, aspersions, disparagement and personal attacks on people who simply hold different opinions and are trying to navigate you contributions?

    Because its actually really nice that people are taking all this berating in largely good humour (though a couple of delicate egos is all it would take to make this a really toxic #$%# show). But this luck isn't going to last forever.

    Just a thought.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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  5. Casey Edwards

    Casey Edwards Senior Member

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    I don't post often anymore, but thought I'd share a short piece I wrote with SF orchestral winds (not the studio winds) and a few thoughts.

    Here's the piece I wrote after purchasing the SF WWs a few years back. It's only the original BML orchestral WWs with a little support from their Orchestral Piano: https://www.dropbox.com/s/k41eb75s20jr5e8/Darkened Whimsy.mp3?dl=0

    I love the sound of the winds and the hall. Every library has its shortcomings, and this one is no exception, but it's still quite good. I have the SF Percussion, Piano, Harp and WWs and they're all lovely and wrapped in that great Air ambience. Here's a concern I voiced before purchasing. However, as soon as they abandoned their vision of completing the BML series I jumped ship. I invested in a product that remains incomplete and has since been repackaged into a form that doesn't even contain the original mic position layout for reasons I don't even want to speculate about. Good news is there are other options to fill the gaps or replace completely. Good luck.
     
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  6. Land of Missing Parts

    Land of Missing Parts No Time for Honky-Tonk

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    Hogwarts
  7. Parsifal666

    Parsifal666 I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.

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    Right. I'm sad.
     
  8. NeonMediaKJT

    NeonMediaKJT New Member

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    Hey, I appreciate the samples. Thanks for that!
     
  9. NYC Composer

    NYC Composer Senior Member

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    Where are the user examples that contradict Piet’s opinion and make the stuff sound really good? Did I miss ‘em?

    Those who disagree should probably put up.
     
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  10. ism

    ism Senior Member

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    Well, again, context matters, and why would anyone risk exposing their music in this environment? When any one who professes to like the library is berated as a "mental 5 year old" or "sedated rabbit". Where they have to defend their "artistic taste" merely for liking the library and are challenged to "put up" to prove it.



    We saw this on the SStS thread also. And this is really the root of what bothers me because I want to hear used demos also.

    There are great threads where there's a collaborative spirit and a diversity of opinions. And then there's this thread. Where diversity of option and experience is fundamentally not being respected. In fact it's being actively derided.

    And you realize that there's an implicit accusation in your post that anyone who reports having a good experience is lying or incompetent right?

    Totally fine to hate a library as much as you like. But this isn't cool.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
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  11. NYC Composer

    NYC Composer Senior Member

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    People put up examples all the time. They take risks.

    You can’t affect anyone who has a decent amount of self regard by “berating” them....and the proof is usually in the pudding. Besides, people are free to agree, disagree, take whatever point of view they want.

    I post pieces on The Sound Board once in a while. Recently, I posted one that Piet was pretty negative about (and we’re friendly.) I went back and re-mixed it and it definitely improved.

    I have three Spitfire libraries. I’d be surprised if Piet has less than a dozen.
    We are of like minds in that we feel Spitfire has some QC issues. Releasing libraries as they do at such an astonishing rate, this is probably not that hard to understand. Maybe they could cut back and improve QC a little? That would be a Good Thing.

    Your problem seems to be about vehemence and tone. Maybe you could concentrate a little more on content? Spitfire has done some wonderful work. It could be improved, as it feels a little slipshod these days. Wouldn’t we all like to see that?

    Just my opinion....and my last for this thread. Cheers.
     
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  12. ism

    ism Senior Member

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    Intentionally or otherwise, you've used the phrase "put up" with an implicit "or shut up" following it in your first post, but then you've shifted the context so that it means something quite different when it reappears.



    Absolutely. Mostly the response has been remarkably good humoured, even in the face of personal attacks and insults. I mean they're just sample libraries. Unlike other threads, I don't see any evidence that anyone on the receiving end of this invective is too bothered at a personal level.

    Yet at the same time, a stream of insults, even if they don't immediately blow up, have a way of seeping into a discourse and quietly poisoning the ground water. And for all that people have been (mostly) good natured, the water quality here is clearly suffering.

    More simply put, if you could choose to operate in an environment where it's ok to like a library without being berated for your "5 year old mental age" vs an environment it's not ok to like a library without being berated for your "5 year old mental age" which would you choose?

    And on a site with the epigraph "musicians helping musicians", it's a bit odd that we forced to this choice in the first place.

    (And if you aggregate all the insults and aspersions across recent threads, I think you'll find there's no reason to put "berated" in quotes. )


    Again, totally fair. And I completely understand this point partly because I have some sympathy for it myself, and partly because it has been so often litigated and re litigated that its kind of hard to miss. And I wish the oboe was more lyrical too.

    But this also misses the point. Because yes, the library has issues. Yes, these are dealbreakers for some people. Yes, they make tiny minority of people (who for some reason bought the library anyway) vehemently hate the library. Totally fine.

    But others experience the same issues, yet don't find it a deal breaker. Why isn't this ok too? Surely contexts that lead people to, on balance, like the library can be respected as much as the contexts that lead people to, on balance, hate the library?

    And in the case of SStS, it was all I could do to even figure out how to reproduce some of the issues that were noted. Not that I'm not grateful to have these issues pointed out. Just that, you know I'm not sure I would have every found them on my own. So not dealbreakers.



    I can cope with vehemence, so that's not the issue.

    And I really like this suggestion of concentrating on content.

    But the tone matters. You can't separate content from tone. It's really not the steam of insults in itself that bothers me so much as the damage it does to discourse. The lost content that might otherwise have appeared in a more civil context.

    Now, personally I don't like SStO as much as the SSO (I'm just really partial to AIR Lyndhurst). But I am finding very beautiful things that SStS can do that I'm pretty sure SCS (which I can't afford) simply can't. And I don't think there's any pretence that SStW is as deeply sampled as SSW or BWW. But it costs $120 and does have its own quality of sound that intrigues me as a possible supplement to SSW (even if the oboe - as has been helpful pointed out - is better in SSW.)

    My point is even accepting all the critique, filtered through the context of the vehemence of their expression, its perfect clear that there's beautiful things being written with these libraries, and that they can be very good value besides. So that theres no reason to litigate that feeling this way constitutes being a mental 5 year old. That's just silly.

    So yes, by all means *please* lets focus on the content of what these actually existing libraries, taken for what they are, can do.


    Best wished to all. I think I might be done with this thread also.
     
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  13. Tekkera

    Tekkera Member

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    He says, after having made posts insulting people.

    Tune in next time on the new hit show, "Dick things re-peat says"
     
  14. axb312

    axb312 Senior Member

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    Don't get what all the fuss is about.

    Critiquing Spitfire may get them to improve their product. Saying it sounds fine may have them doing nothing. I think it benefits us all to find and point out the flaws to Spitfire.

    Yes, this library is not so expensive. This shouldn't give Spitfire an excuse to skimp on quality.

    I feel like this library could be massively improved. Isn't going to happen if we let Spitfire feel complacent about it.

    So, lets help each other out?
     
  15. re-peat

    re-peat Senior Member

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    You're welcome, Neon. If there's anything else you'd like to hear, just let me know.

    _
     
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  16. Parsifal666

    Parsifal666 I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.

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    @re-peat I'm honestly sorry I rubbed you the wrong way, and I believe you had some grounds to fire back (though you were relatively restrained and I'm grateful for that...at least I'm not the SA whipping boy whew!)

    I remain respectful of your opinion. I guess I was just tired yesterday (busting my butt writing with this library) and waaay too sensitive.

    But no excuses, hope you'll forgive me on this and we can shoulder on.
     
  17. re-peat

    re-peat Senior Member

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    Absolutely, Pars. No problem. And shoulder on amiably we will.

    _
     
  18. ism

    ism Senior Member

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    You're right of course. And I apologize to everyone (including re-peat) for stirring drama.

    There's got to be a more constructive way to make that point. I just don't know what it is, and would genuinely welcome advice on how to make the point in a more constructively manor.

    So working on that.
     
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  19. Land of Missing Parts

    Land of Missing Parts No Time for Honky-Tonk

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    I used to respect re-peat's opinion. So I decided to hear him out...and now I don't anymore. C'est la vie.
     
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  20. Parsifal666

    Parsifal666 I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.

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    I respect re-peat's opinions in general, we just can't seem to see eye to eye on this library. He is definitely capable of being really helpful.

    I'm not actively trying to be charitable, but I wouldn't count him out; I've certainly made good calls on buying libraries at least partly attributable to his input.

    That said, I must admit (I say this light heartedly) this was the first time I bought a library partly due to him providing audio contrary to that lol!

    Just joking, re-peat.
     
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