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Nucleus legato?

Akarin

digitalcomposing.com
Hey all. One of my main gripes with Jaeger are the legato bumps. For example, here's an example of Jaeger legato on violins at mid dynamics (followed by the same example using another library):


Could anyone with Nucleus share an example of the naked violins legato? My finger is on the buy button but I don't want to get it if this hasn't been worked on as I believe the samples come from Jaeger.

Thanks!
 

Jonathan Moray

Professional Procrastinator
I agree, your example doesn't sound very good. First is Jaeger and I guess the second example is CSS since they have, in my opinion, the smoothest legato in the industry.

Did you listen to the audio demo Audio Imperia posted where they show the legato? I've never heard the legato sound like that, and the legato in Jaeger has gotten a lot of praise if I remember correctly. I would venture a guess and say that it's because the vibrato is turned off in the first example. That usually affects the way the legato connects from sample to sample. Try turning the vibrato to max and see if the problem is still present.
 
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Akarin

Akarin

digitalcomposing.com
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I agree, your example doesn't sound very good. First is Jaeger and I guess the second example is CSS since they have, in my opinion, the smoothest legato in the industry.

Did you listen to the audio demo Audio Imperia posted where they show the legato? I've never heard the legato sound like that, and the legato in Jaeger has gotten a lot of praise if I remember correctly. I would venture a guess and say that it's because the vibrato is turned off in the first example. That usually affects the way the legato connects from sample to sample. Try turning the vibrato to max and see if the problem is still present.

Yes, I have tried the vibrato and tweaking every possible setting. This disappears at high dynamics only, not on soft passages. AI confirmed on FB that they'll release an update to Jaeger after the launch of Nucleus, though.

I'd really want to hear that this is not the case with Nucleus before buying, though, as I'd intend to use it for soft orchestral cues.

The 2nd example is not CSS ;)
 

DarkestShadow

Senior Member
Sounds like the legato transition is much harder than the sustains, which causes these bumps when playing softer, and it's fine when you play upper dynamic stuff since the legatos are intended for that, but thus of course stick out on the softer levels.
That's what can happen when you sample very cheaply and only record a single dynamic layer for the legatos when clearly more are needed to work well with the sustains sampled at multiple dynamics... might have happened here.
The same bumpiness is present in HZ Strings legatos. My suspicion is they also only sampled a single legato layer (loud) because it's fine when playing upper dynamic stuff and gets bumpy down the cc1 road. Rings a bell, he? ;)
Although I'd like to hear the same with Vibrato turned on. Sometimes the legato sounds poor for non-vibrato... but well, if it's as you suggested still bad then... then we most likely have the above mentioned issue.
 

Sovereign

Senior Member
There are three dynamics legato layers sampled for Jaeger. if the bumps are a problem you could reduce a couple of Db for those specific layers/zones (DYN1 - RR1 - Legato and DYN2 - RR1 - Legato, groups for the full mix).
 

DarkestShadow

Senior Member
Here is an example with the vibrato at 100%, followed by another lib (not CSS) for comparison:

Thanks for the example! A little bit better IMO but still some sudden bumps for sure...
Very odd if indeed 3 dynamics have been sampled for the legatos as Sovereign said... then I'll have to wonder why they are so loud.
They also sound a bit harsher to me, not just louder... but perhaps that's just an side-effect of the loudness.
 

Jonathan Moray

Professional Procrastinator
Yes, I have tried the vibrato and tweaking every possible setting. This disappears at high dynamics only, not on soft passages. AI confirmed on FB that they'll release an update to Jaeger after the launch of Nucleus, though.

I'd really want to hear that this is not the case with Nucleus before buying, though, as I'd intend to use it for soft orchestral cues.

The 2nd example is not CSS ;)

Here is an example with the vibrato at 100%, followed by another lib (not CSS) for comparison:


Yes, let's hope they do some under the hood updates for Jaeger. Because that doesn't sound very usable at all, it's very bumpy.

It's a lot better with the vibrato turned up, but still noticeable.

Off-topic:
Those high frequencies in the second library in the first example you posted don't sound very much like CSS without a lot of EQ, but the legato is quite smooth and most people use that as the gold standard.

So what library is it? It sounds pretty good.

Although the way the vibrato / high frequencies come in after the transition from D to F and F to D is very noticeable and would irk me to no end if used in quick succession since it sounds exactly the same every time.
 
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Akarin

Akarin

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Nucleus Legato works pretty good. Way better than in your example. Looks like they've improved it.
The Solo Violins legato is remarkable!

Just playing around and very satisfying.

Awesome! Could you please, please, just post an example of a few connected notes on the violins at a low dynamic (below 92). Thanks!
 
Just a quick one, unquantized.

Sometimes the first note is a bit strange when you edit it after it goes.
I have to get used to this way of playing, it behaves a little different than I know it from other libs.
That was the tight patch now, I test if the normal behaves differently.
 

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  • Violins legato Test.mp3
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There is a significant difference which patch to choose.

To play the tight patch is better because there is no delay. For playback the normal patch is better because the transitions are better.

The short note at the beginning is because I have not set a lead time.
 

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  • Violins legato Test normal.mp3
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Akarin

Akarin

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There is a significant difference which patch to choose.

To play the tight patch is better because there is no delay. For playback the normal patch is better because the transitions are better.

The short note at the beginning is because I have not set a lead time.

Thanks a lot for posting these, Andy. It helps. I have to say that I am not in love with the sound.
 
Thanks a lot for posting these, Andy. It helps. I have to say that I am not in love with the sound.
Sound at all, or legato? The classic mix is softer, that example is the modern mix.

For softer legato strings also I prefer HOS or Soaring strings, but these blend well with the rest of the lib. Overall, the sound is not for the intimate stuff. But that's ok for me.
 
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Akarin

Akarin

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Sound at all, or legato? The classic mix is softer, that example is the modern mix.

The legato. The sound is not bad at all. Maybe on the synth-y side of the spectrum.
 

ka00

Senior Member
“Nucleus Legato” sounds like it could be Optimus Prime’s arch nemesis. Is the other top-secret library LASS?
 
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