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Now we have to compete with robots offering their services for free

Headlands

Active Member
Fuck. Me.

I just listened to some of their examples. It was bound to happen, and it's pretty good (obviously it can't replace a real composer in certain ways, but I predict it will gradually - or not so gradually possibly - become standard for many things needing music because of the quality and the cheap cost).

Again: Fuck. Me.
 
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patrick76

Senior Member
It sounds OK. The few examples I heard were nothing great. It's what I would expect from a student. I'm sure at some point AI will create some very interesting stuff, but I don't think we're there yet. However, for generic-ish, throw away style tracks that some libraries have, I could see it causing more problems for composers in an already difficult market.
Soon the machines will kill us all :) Except for Neo of course.
 

hawpri

Active Member
Do they disclose how much input, or hours, or whatever that actual people put into their demos? Input from someone who really knows what he/she is doing will leave a huge impact on each piece, and I've read comments stating that these aren't purely AI-produced compositions.

I've read a handful of articles with interesting (misleading) descriptions and headlines about AI compositions only to read more from a few other sources and learn that the demos are a little less AI and a little more human.
 

InLight-Tone

Senior Member
It sounds OK. The few examples I heard were nothing great. It's what I would expect from a student. I'm sure at some point AI will create some very interesting stuff, but I don't think we're there yet. However, for generic-ish, throw away style tracks that some libraries have, I could see it causing more problems for composers in an already difficult market.
Soon the machines will kill us all :) Except for Neo of course.
Except that Matrix 4 is in the works, so perhaps we will overcome?!?
 

Jimmy Hellfire

Senior Member
I listened to some of the AIVA demo pieces. It was a very weird, uncanny experience. It reminded me of science-fiction stuff, like looking at a robot with a life-like rubber face, who moves like a human and has facial expressions, but you still see there's nothing there.

This stuff sounded like that. It tries real hard to convince you that it's music, but it's not.

Not that it would be a problem for the idiots this was made for, or their products. I can imagine this being a great tool for makers of those mobile game apps, for example.
 

GtrString

Active Member
I think this robot thing is way overrated. Its not even half as close as they claim it is. Nobody who critically listens to music will ever buy into it. If robot music actually comes close in 50-100 years time, the listening criteria will also change, so real music isnt going anywhere anytime soon, imho.

A good scenario could also be that the poor (without cultural capital) people that cant appreciate music, and wont pay for it, get a genre of music they can be content with, free robot music.

I think robot music in a way reflects an anti-humanistic trend, where individuals’ unique qualities and stories are valued out of the equation. Wouldnt it be nice if they could get the product that sells everything without the hassle from those artistic types.. But it is also exactly that, that doesnt make it musical, because music is what happens when other human beings resonate with the way a human being (or a group of human beings) communicates the self and the unique experiences. Notes and sounds are just tools, so there is really no musical content, and will never be. Robots can never express anything in a unique way. Its just not possible within the definitions we operate with. We might change those definitions, but then you’d still have something else. The idea is born dead.
 
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gtrwll

Active Member
I'm not really worried, it's really the same thing as in every other business. If a process can be automated, it will be.

If your music can be replaced by an algorithm without noticing, then it will be. I certainly know most of my earlier stock music could be easily replaced, but I've worked and always work hard to improve myself to situate myself and my services above what e.g. an AI can offer. It may or may not pan out well, but worrying about it will definitely get me nowhere.
 

ka00

Senior Member
What I would be concerned about is what happens when this AI can generate its music in real time and then the developers start gathering biometric data sets from listeners in real time in order to learn which of these quasi random sounding musical improvisations resonate with most listeners; which ones make them smile, make them relax, make their heart rate change, etc. It’s only a matter of time.

Beyond that, my only other question is what will the hoardes of unemployed people across all of the various professions that will be automated away decide to do about it when they are made to feel they serve no purpose, and can’t feed themselves or their families.
 

Jimmy Hellfire

Senior Member
I realize that it's hairsplitting really, but it's not even that we would have to compete with robots. It's more that there are people out there who just want to cut you out of the equation, and perhaps in the future they will have more means available to do so.

The reality is that I guess some producers, devs etc. actually don't want to work with you. A composer is a pain in the ass and a liability, they want to get paid, they need to be communicated with, they're not coming up with what you're looking for, just because you have no idea how to formulate it yourself, etc. The AIVA stuff is targeted at people who'd rather not deal with all that and just want some "audio" for whatever they're doing.

Bottom line is, there's still jobs to be lost if this algorithm stuff catches on. But the takeaway for me is: I'm not competing with robots, I'm dealing with people who want stuff cheap & easy and do not care about quality much. And that's a kind of reality that in different degrees affects all fields of work.

So my thinking is: if possible, try to find people to work with who actually care about their product and what you can contribute to it and actually want a competent professional to sit down and come up with something that adds to the big picture. In these scenarios, you'll never compete with robots. The rest can help themselves with nondescript library music and tone shuffling machines.
 
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FriFlo

Senior Member
In this current form I am in no way afraid of it replacing any good or great composer, as it is all pretty uninspired and bland to listen to stuff. However, as AI advances I am not sure wether this might change in the future. And I am also concerned, that this will further pressure a profession that already is on the verge of working without being payed for! And under these circumstances: let's be honest here! Bad rates and little time to do the job already lead to most modern composition to sound bland and lifeless, so, in the mind of film people who don't understand music, but do think they have to say a lot about it (which seems to be a frequent thing in the film industry), this stuff might be pretty close to what real composers can offer and that in a few seconds!
I am not so much worried about my job, but much more about where man kind is heading in general ... ;)
 

Jimmy Hellfire

Senior Member
My favourite solution is that we become one with the robots/AI. Seriously.
Yeah. Just put the bot switch to "on" for all the run of the mill bullshit jobs and go back to human mode when someone really needs music for their project. Would save you a lot of time of your daily life, too. :grin:
 

Symfoniq

Senior Member
I think some of the YouTube videos in particular oversell AIVA's capabilities.

For example, at first listen, the "I am AI" track sounds pretty good. But then you realize that at best, the main theme was created by the AI. The actual thematic development and orchestration are all done by a human. And then, it was recorded in a room with human players.

AIVA also has a video of one of the company founders creating an orchestral theme. From the beginning he generates five different themes, acknowledging that most won't be good enough to keep. Even the one he does keep is pretty uninspired. He imports the four-part MIDI track into Logic and orchestrates it with sample libraries. The result might be considered passable by some, but it's quite bland IMO. Nothing that stirs, resonates, or elevates the listener.

So long as you are creating media that is meant to connect with human minds and hearts, an AI composer is going to be at a disadvantage, because while the AI might "understand" musical patterns, it does not understand humans and their stories.
 

Polkasound

Senior Member
Big Fish Audio keeps coming out with more and more construction kits. This leads me to believe there are a lot of musically-challenged people out there looking for every shortcut possible to create songs. Don't have a musical education? Can't play an instrument? Never engineered a recording session before? Possess less creativity than a calculus tutor? No problem! Throw away that bottle of Ritalin! Here's a band in a box, pre-mixed and ready to go! You're a composer now!

AI song creation software could be used by anyone to spark creativity, but in my opinion, it's primarily an evolutionary tool for the same musically-challenged people above. Just input a little data and press this button. You're a composer now!

AI song creation software will go viral among the young wannabe composers out there. Some will simply create music for their buddies' YouTube videos, while others will use it to speedily churn out tons of mediocre songs and flood music libraries with them, driving prices down. But the key to remember is that AI doesn't have a heart. While it may eventually change the way many video games, corporate presentations, radio bumpers, and YouTube videos are scored, you're never going to hear an AIVA song on the Top 40 charts, in a blockbuster movie, or at a sold-out concert.
 

reddognoyz

Senior Member
if you need wallpaper music this'll do. But library music that's better than that has been freely available for years anyway.
 
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