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Now that Trump is an unindicted co-conspirator....

NYC Composer

Senior Member
Neither is idiocy.

Consider a move to Russia, if you don’t already live there. From your lengthy rants, it seems you’d be very comfortable in Putinville. Me, I’ll pass.
 

Brian2112

Active Member
Democracy may not be a religion, but a Jeffersonian Democracy is my only religion.
Out founders didn’t expect it to last 50 years and they NEVER would have believed it could work with 300 million people. But Jeffersonian Democracy with rule of law has done pretty well despite vast changes. It is the great experiment that only needs refinement not replacement.
 
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Chr!s

Active Member
Neither is idiocy.

Consider a move to Russia, if you don’t already live there. From your lengthy rants, it seems you’d be very comfortable in Putinville. Me, I’ll pass.
You just hurl insults and have no actual argument, as usual.

Democracy may not be a religion, but a Jeffersonian Democracy is my only religion.
Out founders didn’t expect it to last 50 years and they NEVER would have believed it could work with 300 million people. But Jeffersonian Democracy with rule of law has done pretty well despite vast changes. It is the great experiment that only needs refinement not replacement.
It worked in a time when the idea of nations was never in question.

What refinements do you suggest? How do you suggest we protect this from subversion without implementing any authoritarian rule and surveillance?
 
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NYC Composer

Senior Member
Neither is idiocy.
You just hurl insults and have no actual argument, as usual.



It worked in a time when the idea of nations was never in question.

What refinements do you suggest? How do you suggest we protect this from subversion without implementing any authoritarian rule and surveillance?
i remember you now. You never concede a point, you run an endless stream of bullshit hypotheticals, and you use a lot of loose data and historical yadda yadda in unnecessarily long posts, all to make your simple, badly supported point-“democracy doesn’t work”. Well, ok. it’s certainly messy, however, I have no desire to live under ANY “succession” of royalty or tyrannical despots. Feel free to move to one if that’s your desire. The end.
 

Chr!s

Active Member
i remember you now. You never concede a point, you run an endless stream of bullshit hypotheticals, and you use a lot of loose data and historical yadda yadda in unnecessarily long posts, all to make your simple, badly supported point-“democracy doesn’t work”. Well, ok. it’s certainly messy, however, I have no desire to live under ANY “succession” of royalty or tyrannical despots. Feel free to move to one if that’s your desire. The end.
What point am I supposed to concede to exactly?

Remember that time in the communism thread, when I asked you if you'd let 100k Trump supporters into your country if they were allowed to vote and had a higher birthrate than your people and you refused to answer?

Talk about refusing to concede points. :rolleyes:
 
Communism/Socialism are not alternatives to democracy.

They are economic systems. So, capitalism/socialism are not relevant here.
Only economic systems? Then why is the government of China called the Chinese Communist Party? Why is Nazi Germany identified as Nationalist/Imperialist Socialist? Why is the Soviet Union labelled as a Socialist party? Why does the Communist Manefesto have policies for how governments should operate instead of just economic markets? I'm beginning to think that you actually don't know your history, if you only identify these systems as purely economic. Also, are you unwilling to give an alternative to democracy? Like I noticed earlier, a lot of people bash it without giving an alternative. What's your solution, Chris?
 

Chr!s

Active Member
Only economic systems? Then why is the government of China called the Chinese Communist Party? Why is Nazi Germany identified as Nationalist/Imperialist Socialist? Why is the Soviet Union labelled as a Socialist party? Why does the Communist Manefesto have policies for how governments should operate instead of just economic markets? I'm beginning to think that you actually don't know your history, if you only identify these systems as purely economic. Also, are you unwilling to give an alternative to democracy? Like I noticed earlier, a lot of people bash it without giving an alternative. What's your solution, Chris?
You could democratically elect your governments and still completely crush the free market.

You could have a dictatorship and have absolutely zero state-funded anything.

These are simply governmental structures. Socialism is the economic wing of communism.

The alternatives? I'd be down for just about any other governmental structure that puts power, and succession of it in the hands of as few individuals as possible who've proven their loyalties are with their people. The thing about such systems is you always know who is in charge and what the head of the snake(s) are.

How many congressmen, senators, and the like can you name? Are you aware of who is sponsoring whom?

Most people I've heard who agree that the west needs to end democracy agree that it's most likely some new or hybrid of past governmental structures will arise.

One thing is for damn sure: There are from now on going to be people who believe your country should not exist or that its people are secondary to fringe groups. Democracy is the only power these people have, and they will continue to have that power as long democracy remains.
 
You could democratically elect your governments and still completely crush the free market.

You could have a dictatorship and have absolutely zero state-funded anything.

These are simply governmental structures. Socialism is the economic wing of communism.

The alternatives? I'd be down for just about any other governmental structure that puts power, and succession of it in the hands of as few individuals as possible who've proven their loyalties are with their people. The thing about such systems is you always know who is in charge and what the head of the snake(s) are.

How many congressmen, senators, and the like can you name? Are you aware of who is sponsoring whom?

Most people I've heard who agree that the west needs to end democracy agree that it's most likely some new or hybrid of past governmental structures will arise.

One thing is for damn sure: There are from now on going to be people who believe your country should not exist or that its people are secondary to fringe groups. Democracy is the only power these people have, and they will continue to have that power as long democracy remains.
In absolute theory, you could crush the market, but the nature of democracy naturally lends itself to a free market. Less governmental intervention in the market has been a proven bi-product of democratization.

Likewise, a totalitarian state can have a diverse, open market IN THEORY, but it doesn't naturally lend itself to that, especially not long-term, and history proves it.

The policies necessary for a purely socialist economy or in communism to function requires forced demands upon those who create and produce. This typically lends itself to oppressive forces to establish a equal spread of resources (which didn't actually work out in any humane way in the Soviet experiment).

Okay, so now we're at the main point of discussion, and it appears you advocate for a hybrid of previously existing systems, and you desire as few people in control as possible, partly because you don't like anonymous politicians'o'plenty. So let's throw out the Chinese system, because they have hundreds of unelected officials ( psuedo-elected) as well as shadow politicans serving an ex-leader that opposes the current president with his puppet forces (hence all the political purges going on there). How about Russia? Far more simple, but with shadow agents at every corner and on the web, or how about... well, Taiwan is a very simple democracy with some socialist influence, except that China secretly funds one of the parties that promotes pro-Chinese operations. Without a democratic system, a leader like Trump, if he truly were taking orders from Putin... how would you challenge that? Would it require a French-like revolution? You certaintly couldn't vote him away. What if the few people in power are puppets, unelected or otherwise, to shadow organizations (Deep State) or to a foreign power? We really need a solution here, instead of wishful thinking about this "magical hybrid in the sky" system
. It needs to be concrete and not just sound good on paper. If you take away democracy in the US without something structured and organized to replace it with, then the people that you least want to have control will be exactly the ones to take power. Democracy and unelected monarchies both fall victim to puppetry and shadow organizations, so what is the hybrid that we are looking for? I might just google for viable options and report back later.

Edit: Meritocracy combined with Democracy seems to be a favorite of many thinkers, but my concerns are the same: couldn't shadow organizations, money, and a little fowl play cause the wrong people to be merrited? If based on merrit, then we'll be getting more presidents who faked heroism in order to get that purple heart, or that fella who conflated his medical achievements to be admitted into being the representative for all doctors. Perhaps the Russians helped faked his merrits in twitter feeds or something. I wonder if anyone is catching my drift yet... that non-democratic entities / infections are part of what has effected the success of our democracy.

Now I get to my leaning: rather than joining the forces that inflict us (essentially throwing our hands up and tossing democracy out), I advocate for making our democracy even more stout and armored against socialist policies. For example, we have thousands of anonymous lobbyists that do not get voted into office, and we have many people who have political careers that last decades, and too many positions that are not democratically elected positions. In fact, we have too many positions, period. The power is not wholey in the hands of the people. In my views, the US is a crippled democracy, chained down by pre-existing socialist systems and globalist mentalities. There are too many people in positions of power that do not represent the people, but in anything outside of democracy, the representation of the people is diminished even more.
 
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Chr!s

Active Member
In absolute theory, you could crush the market, but the nature of democracy naturally lends itself to a free market. Less governmental intervention in the market has been a proven bi-product of democratization.

Likewise, a totalitarian state can have a diverse, open market IN THEORY, but it doesn't naturally lend itself to that, especially not long-term, and history proves it.

The policies necessary for a purely socialist economy or in communism to function requires forced demands upon those who create and produce. This typically lends itself to oppressive forces to establish a equal spread of resources (which didn't actually work out in any humane way in the Soviet experiment).

Okay, so now we're at the main point of discussion, and it appears you advocate for a hybrid of previously existing systems, and you desire as few people in control as possible, partly because you don't like anonymous politicians'o'plenty. So let's throw out the Chinese system, because they have hundreds of unelected officials ( psuedo-elected) as well as shadow politicans serving an ex-leader that opposes the current president with his puppet forces (hence all the political purges going on there). How about Russia? Far more simple, but with shadow agents at every corner and on the web, or how about... well, Taiwan is a very simple democracy with some socialist influence, except that China secretly funds one of the parties that promotes pro-Chinese operations. Without a democratic system, a leader like Trump, if he truly were taking orders from Putin... how would you challenge that? Would it require a French-like revolution? You certaintly couldn't vote him away. What if the few people in power are puppets, unelected or otherwise, to shadow organizations (Deep State) or to a foreign power? We really need a solution here, instead of wishful thinking about this "magical hybrid in the sky" system
. It needs to be concrete and not just sound good on paper. If you take away democracy in the US without something structured and organized to replace it with, then the people that you least want to have control will be exactly the ones to take power. Democracy and unelected monarchies both fall victim to puppetry and shadow organizations, so what is the hybrid that we are looking for? I might just google for viable options and report back later.
I live in a constitutional monarchy.

Our nations have the best credit ratings in the world.

In fact, absolute monarchy favors even better according to analysts.

“There is no difference between constitutional and absolute monarchies in our assessment of their debt risk,” credit analyst at the agency,”

“However, absolute monarchies score higher than constitutional monarchies in external risk and fiscal risk, largely reflecting the strong general government balance sheets and high external asset positions of wealthy monarchies in the eastern Arab world,”
The free market can, and does, exist just fine in even absolute monarchies. It's just that most of the monarchies that are left, have scarce resources to build an economy with to begin with.

I'd be a-okay with absolute monarchy here.

How would you challenge a corrupted leader? The same way it was done for thousands of years.

You are going to soon be in a position where you can't vote out your leaders as is, and they both operate on the same platforms. Every successor has the same goals.

Nobody has a solution to this because there isn't one. Once a particular demographic has the majority politically, there is no democratic solution. The best I can do is suggest state propaganda being shoved in the media and education system, as that the same tactic globalists have used and succeeded with. But I assume you're against that?

Edit: I did some googling on the subject and this guy puts it very succinctly.


I don't have all the answers, but I do absolutely believe that the current status quo is not working on our favour anymore, and no one seems to be able to say exactly why democracy, at least as we know it, must continue for any other reason then "because democracy." :cautious:
 
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I live in a constitutional monarchy.

Our nations have the best credit ratings in the world.

In fact, absolute monarchy favors even better according to analysts.



The free market can, and does, exist just fine in even absolute monarchies. It's just that most of the monarchies that are left, have scarce resources to build an economy with to begin with.

I'd be a-okay with absolute monarchy here.

How would you challenge a corrupted leader? The same way it was done for thousands of years.

You are going to soon be in a position where you can't vote out your leaders as is, and they both operate on the same platforms. Every successor has the same goals.

Nobody has a solution to this because there isn't one. Once a particular demographic has the majority politically, there is no democratic solution. The best I can do is suggest state propaganda being shoved in the media and education system, as that the same tactic globalists have used and succeeded with. But I assume you're against that?

This isn't about "how can we save democracy?". It's about saving our civilization, and democracy is the tool being used to destroy it.

Monarchies? Let's see... the Iranian monarchy recently triggered the Islamic Revolution due to being incompetent. The people definitely didn't react well to that. A couple of Arabian monarchies are certainly rich, but that doesn't necessarily reflect the wealth and equality of each individual citizen therein. (However, even the United Arab Emirates elect a president every 5 years. One brilliant nation has the blindingly rich Dubai, and that wealth can spread across 7 nations within the UAE). Could you say that a monarchy is great and all because it simplifies and stream-lines decision making? What happens if you get an incompetent ruler that parliament has to war over? Or what if the Queen of England/Canada loses power, keeping it only in name, and political senators, ministers, and underlings rule underneath? That's essentially a shadow democracy, in my view.
Monarchies also don't have as much democratic accountability. The parliament is a good substitution, don't get me wrong. I think parliament is the greatest thing to ever hit a monarchy. I'll give you points for that one, Chris. I simply believe that a democracy is an evolution from there. Instead of the monarchy or its subordinates voting in the senators, the people themselves get to vote them in. I believe that parliaments are what will dissolve monarchies in the very long-term. So, I speculate quite the opposite from you in that regard.

Some obvious cons:

1) It's harder to change the leadership of a monarchy without massive civil unrest or war, whereas we can and HAVE impeached presidents in the US before.

2)Monarchy does no better than democracy at ensuring that the best person gets the role of leadership, but it does ensure that they keep it for long-term under most conditions. N. Korea is a monarchy and it's people can't do anything about it unless they want to die in mass to overthrow their ruler.their monarchy is quite absolute, and they certainly do well with their credit (up to 10 billion as opposed to trillions). That doesn't mean you want to live there.

3) It depends on the quality of your parliament, or if your monarch is actually in charge. Otherwise, it's a democracy with a face and a crown or a shadow government.

4) The obvious humanitarian concern that a monarch is gifted with luxury and power because of a coincidental birth and not by merit, or without the say of the people that must endure said ruler. Such a thing challenges the ideas of equality that we've been riding on since the Enlightenment.

A pro:
I'll grant you another point here: Monarchs are less likely to jeopardize their country in the political/economic arena, because they are indefinitely stuck with their country for good. I see that as a great point, but my concern is that that doesn't guarantee humanitarian equity or that a foolish ruler won't be stupid and ruin his country (the Iranians for example).

Perhaps I'm over-simplifying the case for democracy here, but I don't see how you're being any different regarding a monarchy.

((Note: I apologize that I only make posts very late/early. I'm currently residing in Taiwan, so time-scales are different. :P ))
 
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PeterN

Senior Member
Maybe Chris is a Russian bot.

The communist Chinese must have been laughing at this dork circus going on, giving them same time the open backdoor and a golden key on top of that.

Same people who were walking around in pyjamas in Shanghai 15 years ago, selling carrots in street corners. Where did that money come from - to buy up half of West including properties and wine farms - one may just ask. As we know, there are no scams in China.

Dorks
 

PeterN

Senior Member
((Note: I apologize that I only make posts very late/early. I'm currently residing in Taiwan, so time-scales are different. :P ))
Sorry for going completely off topic, but may I ask Kaleb, are you working in sound design/music industry where you are based?

The community here is very California centered (californicentric) and I believe (know) the whole world is open.

If your answer is yes, it would be interesting to hear your experiences in a separate thread.

(Moderator, delete this message if its too off topic, I can send it as PM too, but thought there may be common interests here. Will start a separate thread on global focus in this business, ....sooner or later.)
 
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PeterN

Senior Member
Caught!

We need to close his paypal, twitter, facebook and youtube, furthermore every time he is googled show something disturbing.

Go get him, CNN!

This isnt about free speech anymore. Dont give him a platform.

Come help me, its a bigot, sexist, racist, fascist and misogynist.
 

Chr!s

Active Member
Caught!

We need to close his paypal, twitter, facebook and youtube, furthermore every time he is googled show something disturbing.

Go get him, CNN!

This isnt about free speech anymore. Dont give him a platform.

Come help me, its a bigot, sexist, racist, fascist and misogynist.
 

C M Dess

Active Member
I have 5 new hairs from my 10 months of extensive chemical vasodilation and laser treatment. The question is which way shall I comb them for maximum fluffiness. I need total fulfillment of the experience.

Sure, they're actually just shadows of bald spot and dirt. But look, I'm not an animal, I want to look my finest for the coming AI love doll revolution/crumbling world system. I need that area to be able to pass their captcha scan tests (human being/partial pass--dumbass full pass).

This is where hair combing triangulation comes in handy.

I did make a hat with my fancy new logo. But sadly it's designed to be worn by those with integrity and I can't ship to my german friends on this forum because the US trade war and totally corrupt music business of money laundering and ruling class tutti frutti. Just that.

Hey, you guy, guy who shared my logo...you're appreciated. I'm taking the time to make this insightfully delightful post to share my gratitude and humility. I even put it in the right section and scale of forum. I don't actually like writing all these words cause I'm shy and shameful.

I for me!

Here's the logo:
"%r,[email protected]@CRAPPY%%"

It translates to coolest logo ever conceived by GOD/4D itself. Tell the roman rulers we gotta update the scripturez.

I seen a guy accidentally go into the ladies room twice today at work. He has lots more money and character. That's the earth. We are its visitors.
 
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Chr!s

Active Member
I have 5 new hairs from my 10 months of extensive chemical vasodilation and laser treatment. The question is which way shall I comb them for maximum fluffiness. I need total fulfillment of the experience.

Sure, they're actually just shadows of bald spot and dirt. But look, I'm not an animal, I want to look my finest for the coming AI love doll revolution/crumbling world system. I need that area to be able to pass their captcha scan tests (human being/partial pass--dumbass full pass).

This is where hair combing triangulation comes in handy.

I did make a hat with my fancy new logo. But sadly it's designed to be worn by those with integrity and I can't ship to my german friends on this forum because the US trade war and totally corrupt music business of money laundering and ruling class tutti frutti. Just that.

Hey, you guy, guy who shared my logo...you're appreciated. I'm taking the time to make this insightfully delightful post to share my gratitude and humility. I even put it in the right section and scale of forum. I don't actually like writing all these words cause I'm shy and shameful.

I for me!

Here's the logo:
"%r,[email protected]@CRAPPY%%"

It translates to coolest logo ever conceived by GOD/4D itself. Tell the roman rulers we gotta update the scripturez.

I seen a guy accidentally go into the ladies room twice today at work. He has lots more money and character. That's the earth. We are its visitors.
 

whiskers

Perpetual student
I wish there would be more repercussions to POTUS just spewing obvious BS as fact. I mean, there is some, maybe he just has such a warped mentality he doesn't grasp negative feedback without a victim mentality.
 
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