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Now here...MOTU DP11

dts_marin

Member
I did. The tree structure is a mess. I get the idea, but visually it is terrible for articulations.

But that was moot point since S1 didn't support program changes. I did create key switch maps just to compare, and S1 is fine once setup - not my favorite though.

Efficient setup windows are great, if they are needed frequently. However, I generally setup articulation maps once for my VEP host/slave setup. If we were to compare the fastest for setting up templates, ProTools would win hands down for complete key command/modifier access to adding multiple tracks at once, and then routing multiple tracks as well. S1 has some of this, but it is still far behind PT. But that gain is obviously lost when editing midi in PT, if you can call it that.

If S1 works great for you - awesome. I do like S1 in general, but it is still missing too much to beat out either Nuendo or DP for scoring, for me at least.
No S1 doesn't work for me that's why I use DP. Again, too much unrelated info.

I only care about how DP loses efficiency because many dialogs and sub menus aren't keyboard friendly. That's all. No missing surround in S1 etc. That's not the issue. I have all of that in DP.

The comparison was made to illustrate my point on why working with the keyboard on repetitive tasks is faster than using the mouse.

Nothing wrong with DP. I use it, I prefer against others.
 

AEF

Senior Member
You might not have understood what I said here. Of course the provided keyboard shortcuts are configurable. The problem with DP is that a LOT of actions can't be accessed without a mouse which slows things considerably. e.g. you want to change track color? You need to click. You want to edit articulation maps you need to click...

Studio One and Reaper are far better and put a lot of the actions accessible via keyboard or their respective macro editor or action window which opens possibilities for efficient automation of tasks.
You can create a key command for articulation map setup. Or press shift enter and type in whatever you want.

There are no macros, true, but I dont find it any more or less click based than any other daw if you create your own key bindings.
 

Trensharo

Active Member
You can create a key command for articulation map setup. Or press shift enter and type in whatever you want.

There are no macros, true, but I dont find it any more or less click based than any other daw if you create your own key bindings.
DP feels like the MIDI-focused brother of Samplitude Pro X. It's definitely more click based than something like Studio One, Cakewalk, or Cubase as those DAWs either were designed with a focus on mouse-heavy usage, or got UX do-overs to accommodate this. DP feels like it was designed for computers without a mouse.

Yes, you can navigate the UI, Menus, and Context Menus with a mouse... But, when you're used to dragging Virtual Instruments, FX, etc. around and just dropping them to allow the DAW to do what takes 3 clicks and a menu dive in DP - CONSTANTLY - you feel this.

I don't feel like it is as efficient to use as something like Studio One, unless you learn the keyboard shortcuts and employ them religiously. The issue with that - from a Windows user's perspective - is that even the most basic File/Edit/View/Window Management operations have ported over macOS keyboard shortcuts. So, there is no shortcut. Even the basics are going to be relatively foreign.

I think the average person can pick up Cubase and get by just fine, while having decent-enough productivity. I don't think this is possible with Digital Performer. I think that may work to its disadvantage. The software may frustrate people before they can even start making music with it, while trying a trial version or something... The market is oversaturated with DAWs, these days.

I actually think that's kind of fine, though. Different software is different. I do think Samplitude was easier to use, even with the click and keyboard heavy UX due to the fact that it uses a lot of Standard Windows shortcuts, so a lot of the basics of using the application were relatively intuitive.

Digital Performer on Windows is a culture shock :-P

Using it on a laptop (being on vacation), I think it runs well and it's fine. Some of the text in the UI is very small, though. My eyesight is great, but I can see others completely shrugging it off for Accessibility reasons. The list fonts can be scaled, but there is a LOT of text in the UI that is miniscule. If you're using a laptop screen smaller than 15.6", it will be rough going with that!

The feature set is amazing. The DAW is very deep and equally broad. It's great for video work, and it supports surround without forcing you to upgrade to a $999-3,500 Product SKU (Nuendo, Pro Tools | Ultimate, Sequoia), though it doesn't do Atmos (AFAIK... yet?).

The MIDI Editing is good. The Audio Editing is good. The score editor is better than that of Cubase - but it, sadly, doesn't import MusicXML (though importing the MIDI seems fine; track names and everything carry over, but no articulations will). The Articulation Maps and Editing are better than Cubase, Studio One and Cakewalk. Everything seems great. The packaging is just a bit old-fashioned.

The way tracks are handled is kind of fine. If I think of Instrument Tracks as instruments in the Cubase VST Rack, it makes more sense - or at least removes one layer from consideration. The only gotcha is that the instrument audio outs have to go to "AUX Tracks." "Audio Tracks" won't do.
 
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Pat Maddox

New Member
I'm new to DP. There's a lot that I like about it so far, but I'm also getting hung up on something really simple.

99% of the time when I record MIDI, it drops the first note. I have count-in and metronome enabled for recording. I strongly suspect I'm playing a few milliseconds before recording actually begins. On other DAWs I've used, they recognize that initial note and place it at the very start of recording. DP on the other hand drops it entirely, as if I'd never played it. My solutions are to a) consciously try to play a bit later than the initial downbeat b) if I played it a bit early and it dropped the note, go back and write it in manually.

I've looked through the manual and searched online and haven't found anyone else reporting this sort of thing.

Is there a setting that would get DP to place that first note at 1.1.000 (or wherever I started recording), even if I play the MIDI note just slightly ahead?

DP 11.02 on MacOS 10.15.7, using an m-audio hammer 88 USB keyboard
 

JohnG

Senior Member
@Pat Maddox

Not sure if I 100% understand what you're doing there, honestly, but one way is to have two bars free before the first note. I always put a couple of empty bars at the start of a piece and change the starting bar (the empty bars) to -1 and 0. That way if you're slightly early, it's there.

In addition, you might try using "Input Quantize" -- IDK if that will help or not but it's available.
 

Pat Maddox

New Member
I'd like to be able to use punch recording for the specific measures I'm working on, and not always have to start recording a measure early. REAPER will recognize that first note even if the note on comes just a bit ahead of the punch-in point. Maybe DP can't do that though, and I'll just have to start recording earlier than I want.

Something is definitely weird though, because sometimes it will throw the first note into the future. In the attached screenshot, the second clip (~bar 30) is a super short version of the first note I played.

Here's a video demonstrating the behavior. The second time I record in DP11, I intentionally play a bit early - and you can see that it creates a clip in the future. In the Reaper example, the "thunk" at the beginning is when I strike the keyboard early - and Reaper doesn't actually even play the note until recording begins. This weird behavior is definitely a thing to send to tech support. I'm just not sure if DP11 can even do the thing where it records the note even if it plays early. I haven't seen anyone else online report this, so either it can't do that and nobody cares, or it doesn't drop the first note on other people.

 

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Trensharo

Active Member
@Pat Maddox

Not sure if I 100% understand what you're doing there, honestly, but one way is to have two bars free before the first note. I always put a couple of empty bars at the start of a piece and change the starting bar (the empty bars) to -1 and 0. That way if you're slightly early, it's there.

In addition, you might try using "Input Quantize" -- IDK if that will help or not but it's available.
I thought this was fairly standard, so that one can set controller and such at the beginning of the sequence. I remember watching a Guy Michelmore video about this a while back, when he was using DP, and I've been doing it ever since - regardless of what DAW I was using.
 

JohnG

Senior Member
I'd like to be able to use punch recording for the specific measures I'm working on, and not always have to start recording a measure early.
I see. Why not just duplicate the midi track and record the punch on the second track?

I can’t remember the last time I used punch record for midi.

I view punch recording as an audio thing, primarily. For that I usually have the players start playing a bar or two before the actual punch so that if there are any ring-outs or sustained notes it works. However, with live playing, punch record does rely on the players being on the beat.
 

Al Maurice

Active Member
@Pat Maddox -- I've just been working on a specific measure, and instead of using punch record you can use DP's link to memory feature. Just click on auto record (and auto stop if you wish), then select the region where you plan to record (red bar) on the timeline. Place the wiper ahead and hit record. You can even add in a 2 bar or so ahead if you want too. This works with clips as well.

Auto record.PNG
 

Pat Maddox

New Member
I always put a couple of empty bars at the start of a piece and change the starting bar (the empty bars) to -1 and 0. That way if you're slightly early, it's there.
If I add a blank bar at the beginning:

1) how do I get the measure numbers to show as the normal 1 / 9 / 17 they would be if I didn't have a blank bar when zooming out?

2) how do I handle the blank bar when using Sequences in a Song? I want Sequences to flow into one another, but they don't if I have a blank measure at the beginning
 

JohnG

Senior Member
Hi @Pat Maddox

You can change the bar number start using a pull-down menu that appears in the upper left 'main' counter window. The pull-down menu is just to the left of the time signature (3/4 or 4/4 or whatever). Using that pull-down, select "Set Chunk Start Time." [moreover, if you're working with film, this is where you change the start time so you can match the time code of the picture.]

I don't know the best answer to your second question since I don't write songs much and, consequently, don't use that function. IDK if there's an offset or the ability to choose a bar other than the first one.

Maybe someone else can chime in?

Kind regards,

John
 

Trensharo

Active Member
So. I'm home now. More problems.

1. Different plug-ins will not show up in DP unless I completely reinstall them from scratch. Komplete Kontrol, Massive X, etc. I have too many plug-ins to deal with this. This will literally take hours to go through to make sure everything is there.

2. Doesn't work with my M-Audio interface.
 
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Al Maurice

Active Member
Yes the plugin conundruum: where do you begin.

To make some of my plugins to work, took me two tries: i). turn most off with disable all, then activate the ones I needed with an alternative profile. Like you adding some of those with various presets didn't work or show up, unless I opted for the VST2 versions and then, ii). I tried the other approach start with most, letting DP find those on my drives, then turning off the ones I didn't want. Not the best but at least then the likes of Zebra 2 operated without appear as an effect as a VST3.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
You certainly seem to be having a lot of problems with your system. You might be able to get more help on these problems from MOTU tech support or possibly the motunation forum (knock on wood)

The only problem I had with DP11 was during the initial plugin scanning phase, which I eventually found a work around and got through that phase, and its been smooth sailing ever since, including every time it has needed to scan plugins.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
are you guys with disappearing plugins...both using DP on windows? Just curious...

If it were me, I probably would not have actually paid for DP, expecting to run it on windows. I mean...I have it now...and if I happen to have a PC I would try it...but if I were PC only and deciding what to buy.......I would be either Cubase or.... well just Cubase hehehe.. I personally do not have high confidence in DP on windows, just from stories like this... It just hasn't been vetted enough yet.
 

Trensharo

Active Member
Eh... They're now asking me to install ASIO4ALL on my PC, so this is where I'm going to dip out. I don't regret the purchase as I stated (way) earlier in the thread that I would make it if they ran a promotion on the cross grade. I'm more peeved about the time sink in troubleshooting this software has enforced onto me than the cost of obtaining it.
 

waveheavy

Active Member
Was going to ask this. Does it work on windows 10 well? I've been eyeing the switch back to DP for a while as well. I qualify for the upgrade but not sure if I want to go down the Mac rabbit whole right now especially with the big change coming.
Best to stay away if you're a Windows user.

I tried DP9 and DP10 on Windows 7, and I couldn't even record a live guitar track into it (using my UA Apollo Twin)! I asked support about it and they made all these suggestions like I was some stupid teenager, and eventually just shrugged me off.

It's apparent, and obvious, they don't care about Windows, so really they are guilty of 'false advertisement' and very easily could lose a class action lawsuit if enough Windows customers got together and did something about it.
 
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