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Now here...MOTU DP11

dterry

New Member
It looks like the color of the velocities in the midi edit window have changed. They're now light gray, against a lighter gray background. Yuck! Anyone know if this can be changed?
No way to change the color of velocities that I can find (nothing in the Style files). It was probably chosen using the Default, dark DP 11 theme, but you are right, it is terrible with other themes. Using grey for active data makes no sense.
 

Trensharo

Active Member
The crossgrade is only $195, currently, so I picked it up. I'm noticing some really bad VST Support, both for VST2 and VST3. Plug-ins that run everywhere else fail in Digital Performer. Basically have to keep both versions installed because in many cases one fails while the other doesn't.

Running on Windows.

I cannot get Komplete Kontrol to load. It scans, and it's enabled, but it isn't in the plug-in list for Instruments or Effects. Anyone know why that is?

Text is still a bit small and I'd prefer if the text was less tiny without me having to blow up the entire user interface. I think it will be fine on my desktop, though. Comparing to Studio One, it isn't super bad... It just has more text in the general UI.
 
The crossgrade is only $195, currently, so I picked it up. I'm noticing some really bad VST Support, both for VST2 and VST3. Plug-ins that run everywhere else fail in Digital Performer. Basically have to keep both versions installed because in many cases one fails while the other doesn't.

Running on Windows.

I cannot get Komplete Kontrol to load. It scans, and it's enabled, but it isn't in the plug-in list for Instruments or Effects. Anyone know why that is?

Text is still a bit small and I'd prefer if the text was less tiny without me having to blow up the entire user interface. I think it will be fine on my desktop, though. Comparing to Studio One, it isn't super bad... It just has more text in the general UI.
I there’s what I would consider a cross platform bug with VST3 Reason Rack and a few other multi instruments that might be affecting Komplete Control where it loads only in audio or Aux tracks, you then point a midi track at it and it works. Hope that helps.

Weird bug, but motu have their own audio protocol like ASIO and VST combined called MOTU Audio System or MAS, and all formats pass through it. So they need to rewrite their VST2-3 MAS plug in to recognize VSTi’s with audio inputs as instruments and not FX.
 
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Trensharo

Active Member
It's not showing up anywhere, regardless of track type.

It is as if it is not installed...

Kind of a showstopper. I don't really consider it usable if I cannot access this plug-in. I might put in for a refund, since the problem is likely known and it's been like.. 5 (?) months since DP 11 was released... A fix is likely not coming soon'ish.

DP11 Audio Track.png
DP11 AUX Track.png
DP11 Instrument Track.png
DP11 Instrument Track 2.png
 

Trensharo

Active Member
Also, there is some weirdness where if DP is running, my Windows key does not work. It only works when DP does not have focus.

After installation, I actually thought my laptop keyboard was broken because of this.

Makes multi-tasking a PITA because you must click out of DP or use the mouse to click the start menu. I've never had an application block something like that before.
 
I sold my DP 10 license, it was blocking all kind of plugins that were fine on S1 and was buggy. I bought Cubase 11 and all is good on that platform(on PC anyway) If you're on PC , I would not recommend DP, lots of pros use it bit I think they're on Macs?
 

Trensharo

Active Member
I already own those DAWs. I used Studio One as a backup when traveling. DP would be, initially, replacing that. On my studio workstation, I use Cubase. But, since DP is better with video work, I figured why not. I have some disposable income, so I mind as well give it a whirl. $195 is relatively cheap.

I didn't know it was so bad with plug-ins, though.

This does feel like going back to the early days of VST, when DAWs were only just implementing support for it in the 90s.
 
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cmillar

Active Member
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I already own those DAWs. I used Studio One as a backup when traveling. DP would be, initially, replacing that. On my studio workstation, I use Cubase. But, since DP is better with video work, I figured why not. I have some disposable income, so I mind as well give it a whirl. $195 is relatively cheap.

I didn't know it was so bad with plug-ins, though.

This does feel like going back to the early days of VST, when DAWs were only just implementing support for it in the 90s.
Have you visited the forum www.MOTUnation.com ?

You'll find some pretty knowledgable long-time users who know DP inside/out there. Might be able to answer some questions you have.
 
It's not showing up anywhere, regardless of track type.

It is as if it is not installed...

Kind of a showstopper. I don't really consider it usable if I cannot access this plug-in. I might put in for a refund, since the problem is likely known and it's been like.. 5 (?) months since DP 11 was released... A fix is likely not coming soon'ish.
Contact support. Komplete Control is 100% supposed to work, they just added advanced support for the Komplete keyboards in 11, this isn't normal behavior this would have certainly been a big part of DP11 beta testing, running Komplete Control, so something is off. They actually have phone support BTW, which to me is a HUGE plus.

Ask about the Windows key issue as well, that sounds odd to me, but it might be that DP is using it for some Command?
 

Trensharo

Active Member
Contact support. Komplete Control is 100% supposed to work, they just added advanced support for the Komplete keyboards in 11, this isn't normal behavior this would have certainly been a big part of DP11 beta testing, running Komplete Control, so something is off. They actually have phone support BTW, which to me is a HUGE plus.

Ask about the Windows key issue as well, that sounds odd to me, but it might be that DP is using it for some Command?
Have, they got back to me. Will see what they say, maybe next week since tomorrow is a holiday.

The plug-in shows up in Audio Plug-in settings and passes inspection. I can enable it, but it does not show up in any Instrument/Effect dialogs.
 

Trensharo

Active Member
Have you visited the forum www.MOTUnation.com ?

You'll find some pretty knowledgable long-time users who know DP inside/out there. Might be able to answer some questions you have.
I've searched it for any mention of the issue, but I haven't registered there. Support from MOTU seems quite prompt and thorough, so I'll see if support can help with the issue before creating another internet account :-P

EDIT: Issue resolved by uninstalling Komplete Kontrol and then re-installing it from scratch. Not sure what the issue was, but the "Re-Install" option in Native Access wasn't enough to get it done. I had to uninstall from Control Panel and then install from Native Access. Once I did that, it showed up in Digital Performer 11.

Time to start playing with it!

Off the bat, I'm really liking how the Articulation Maps work. They have scoring symbols and text built into the notation for almost everything in my expression maps, and it automatically assigns the correct one to almost every articulation.

Very click heavy user experience, though...
 
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I'm using DP10 on a 2019 Mac pro/Catalina w/ VEP7 and lately it's been crashing on me every day, especially if I switch between projects. I'm pretty fed up and can't take it anymore, so I'm wondering:
- would upgrading to DP11 offer more stability?
- should I switch to another DAW? I tried Logic and hated it, but downloaded a demo of Cubase and I think I could get onboard once I get used it, but not sure if it's more stable than DP.

Would love to hear some advice from anyone experiencing similar issues.
 

Trensharo

Active Member
Audio wise, what is the advantage of DP over the rest of the established DAWs (Reaper included)?
Nothing. Reaper has Spectral Editing, IIRC, but honestly audio is largely a solved domain until you get into time stretching and pitch manipulation (Melodyne, etc.), stem splitting. Most DAWs are good with audio, with few exceptions. DAWs like Samplitude and Pro Tools are stronger than REAPER if Audio is what you do.

Generally speaking, though, there isn’t a huge difference. It’s mostly a difference in workflow, UI, and UX.

DP seems very menu and dialog driven, like REAPER. Avoid if you want tons of drag and drop (Studio One, Cubase, Cakewalk are all significantly better there).

And on Windiws it disables the Windows Key when it’s in focus. I am not sure how I am going to work around that. I’ve never had an application nerf usability on a computer so hard. That is a first for me. The Windows key is kind of a big deal. Tons of top-level OS shortcuts use that button, so DP forces you to relearn how to use windows productively when it is running and in focus - if you’re used to using these shortcuts.
 
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Dewdman42

Senior Member
I'm using DP10 on a 2019 Mac pro/Catalina w/ VEP7 and lately it's been crashing on me every day, especially if I switch between projects. I'm pretty fed up and can't take it anymore, so I'm wondering:
- would upgrading to DP11 offer more stability?

DP11 has not been crashing for me (Once I got past plugin scanning). DP10 was not crashing on me before that either. I don't think most people were having that kind of constant problem with DP10 crashing. So will upgrading to DP 11 solve your problem? Maybe, but I think you need to look deeper into what is causing it to crash on you first...because DP11 may very well have the same problem for you as you are having now... I don't think that is typical DP10 behavior.

- should I switch to another DAW? I tried Logic and hated it, but downloaded a demo of Cubase and I think I could get onboard once I get used it, but not sure if it's more stable than DP.

As I said, I don't think your crashing is for sure going to be solved even by switching DAW's, something is going on with your setup which may or may not even be related to MOTU software. In my mind the compelling reason to change DAW's is for features you need or want in the other DAW.
 

dts_marin

Member
I've searched it for any mention of the issue, but I haven't registered there. Support from MOTU seems quite prompt and thorough, so I'll see if support can help with the issue before creating another internet account :-P

EDIT: Issue resolved by uninstalling Komplete Kontrol and then re-installing it from scratch. Not sure what the issue was, but the "Re-Install" option in Native Access wasn't enough to get it done. I had to uninstall from Control Panel and then install from Native Access. Once I did that, it showed up in Digital Performer 11.

Time to start playing with it!

Off the bat, I'm really liking how the Articulation Maps work. They have scoring symbols and text built into the notation for almost everything in my expression maps, and it automatically assigns the correct one to almost every articulation.

Very click heavy user experience, though...
Exactly, really click heavy UX. Many actions are mouse exclusive and impossible to automate even with advanced macros. They need to make everything that makes sense accessible via keyboard and add a basic macro creator.
 

Trensharo

Active Member
Exactly, really click heavy UX. Many actions are mouse exclusive and impossible to automate even with advanced macros. They need to make everything that makes sense accessible via keyboard and add a basic macro creator.
Keyboard shortcuts are configurable, like most any other DAW. Looking through the GUI, most things that matter are available via keyboard shortcuts. Issue is every DAW has its own distinct keybinds. There is no standard like there is for software that generally follow CUA conventions for common functions.

Generally, I prefer to just map a Tartarus/Naga Profile and put all equivalent basic functions on the same buttons regardless of DAW, NLE, etc. This makes jumping between software packages fairly trivial - e.g. "Insert Track" is the same button whether I'm using Pro Tools, Cubase, Studio One, etc.

The lack of drag and drop for Instruments, FX, etc. creates a lot of extra clicks, though, and really affects the "feel" of using the software. I guess one can say that it feels more like Pro Tools than Cubase in terms of operation.
 
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dts_marin

Member
Keyboard shortcuts are configurable, like most any other DAW. Looking through the GUI, most things that matter are available via keyboard shortcuts. Issue is every DAW has its own distinct keybinds. There is no standard like there is for software that generally follow CUA conventions for common functions.

Generally, I prefer to just map a Tartarus/Naga Profile and put all equivalent basic functions on the same buttons regardless of DAW, NLE, etc. This makes jumping between software packages fairly trivial - e.g. "Insert Track" is the same button whether I'm using Pro Tools, Cubase, Studio One, etc.

The lack of drag and drop for Instruments, FX, etc. creates a lot of extra clicks, though, and really affects the "feel" of using the software. I guess one can say that it feels more like Pro Tools than Cubase in terms of operation.
You might not have understood what I said here. Of course the provided keyboard shortcuts are configurable. The problem with DP is that a LOT of actions can't be accessed without a mouse which slows things considerably. e.g. you want to change track color? You need to click. You want to edit articulation maps you need to click...

Studio One and Reaper are far better and put a lot of the actions accessible via keyboard or their respective macro editor or action window which opens possibilities for efficient automation of tasks.
 
I think you need to look deeper into what is causing it to crash on you first...because DP11 may very well have the same problem for you as you are having now... I don't think that is typical DP10 behavior.

something is going on with your setup which may or may not even be related to MOTU software. In my mind the compelling reason to change DAW's is for features you need or want in the other DAW.

Good point, I haven't looked into other causes yet. I suppose there could be some faulty RAM at play here. I'll do some troubleshooting and see if I find anything.
 

Trensharo

Active Member
You might not have understood what I said here. Of course the provided keyboard shortcuts are configurable. The problem with DP is that a LOT of actions can't be accessed without a mouse which slows things considerably. e.g. you want to change track color? You need to click. You want to edit articulation maps you need to click...

Studio One and Reaper are far better and put a lot of the actions accessible via keyboard or their respective macro editor or action window which opens possibilities for efficient automation of tasks.
Most things you can set a shortcut for. Dorico is another application where a lot of useful functions aren’t keybound by default.
 
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