What's new

Now here...MOTU DP11

Trensharo

Active Member
I already own those DAWs. I used Studio One as a backup when traveling. DP would be, initially, replacing that. On my studio workstation, I use Cubase. But, since DP is better with video work, I figured why not. I have some disposable income, so I mind as well give it a whirl. $195 is relatively cheap.

I didn't know it was so bad with plug-ins, though.

This does feel like going back to the early days of VST, when DAWs were only just implementing support for it in the 90s.
 
Last edited:
OP
C

cmillar

Senior Member
Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #402
I already own those DAWs. I used Studio One as a backup when traveling. DP would be, initially, replacing that. On my studio workstation, I use Cubase. But, since DP is better with video work, I figured why not. I have some disposable income, so I mind as well give it a whirl. $195 is relatively cheap.

I didn't know it was so bad with plug-ins, though.

This does feel like going back to the early days of VST, when DAWs were only just implementing support for it in the 90s.
Have you visited the forum www.MOTUnation.com ?

You'll find some pretty knowledgable long-time users who know DP inside/out there. Might be able to answer some questions you have.
 
It's not showing up anywhere, regardless of track type.

It is as if it is not installed...

Kind of a showstopper. I don't really consider it usable if I cannot access this plug-in. I might put in for a refund, since the problem is likely known and it's been like.. 5 (?) months since DP 11 was released... A fix is likely not coming soon'ish.
Contact support. Komplete Control is 100% supposed to work, they just added advanced support for the Komplete keyboards in 11, this isn't normal behavior this would have certainly been a big part of DP11 beta testing, running Komplete Control, so something is off. They actually have phone support BTW, which to me is a HUGE plus.

Ask about the Windows key issue as well, that sounds odd to me, but it might be that DP is using it for some Command?
 

Trensharo

Active Member
Contact support. Komplete Control is 100% supposed to work, they just added advanced support for the Komplete keyboards in 11, this isn't normal behavior this would have certainly been a big part of DP11 beta testing, running Komplete Control, so something is off. They actually have phone support BTW, which to me is a HUGE plus.

Ask about the Windows key issue as well, that sounds odd to me, but it might be that DP is using it for some Command?
Have, they got back to me. Will see what they say, maybe next week since tomorrow is a holiday.

The plug-in shows up in Audio Plug-in settings and passes inspection. I can enable it, but it does not show up in any Instrument/Effect dialogs.
 

Trensharo

Active Member
Have you visited the forum www.MOTUnation.com ?

You'll find some pretty knowledgable long-time users who know DP inside/out there. Might be able to answer some questions you have.
I've searched it for any mention of the issue, but I haven't registered there. Support from MOTU seems quite prompt and thorough, so I'll see if support can help with the issue before creating another internet account :-P

EDIT: Issue resolved by uninstalling Komplete Kontrol and then re-installing it from scratch. Not sure what the issue was, but the "Re-Install" option in Native Access wasn't enough to get it done. I had to uninstall from Control Panel and then install from Native Access. Once I did that, it showed up in Digital Performer 11.

Time to start playing with it!

Off the bat, I'm really liking how the Articulation Maps work. They have scoring symbols and text built into the notation for almost everything in my expression maps, and it automatically assigns the correct one to almost every articulation.

Very click heavy user experience, though...
 
Last edited:
I'm using DP10 on a 2019 Mac pro/Catalina w/ VEP7 and lately it's been crashing on me every day, especially if I switch between projects. I'm pretty fed up and can't take it anymore, so I'm wondering:
- would upgrading to DP11 offer more stability?
- should I switch to another DAW? I tried Logic and hated it, but downloaded a demo of Cubase and I think I could get onboard once I get used it, but not sure if it's more stable than DP.

Would love to hear some advice from anyone experiencing similar issues.
 

Trensharo

Active Member
Audio wise, what is the advantage of DP over the rest of the established DAWs (Reaper included)?
Nothing. Reaper has Spectral Editing, IIRC, but honestly audio is largely a solved domain until you get into time stretching and pitch manipulation (Melodyne, etc.), stem splitting. Most DAWs are good with audio, with few exceptions. DAWs like Samplitude and Pro Tools are stronger than REAPER if Audio is what you do.

Generally speaking, though, there isn’t a huge difference. It’s mostly a difference in workflow, UI, and UX.

DP seems very menu and dialog driven, like REAPER. Avoid if you want tons of drag and drop (Studio One, Cubase, Cakewalk are all significantly better there).

And on Windiws it disables the Windows Key when it’s in focus. I am not sure how I am going to work around that. I’ve never had an application nerf usability on a computer so hard. That is a first for me. The Windows key is kind of a big deal. Tons of top-level OS shortcuts use that button, so DP forces you to relearn how to use windows productively when it is running and in focus - if you’re used to using these shortcuts.
 
Last edited:

Dewdman42

Senior Member
I'm using DP10 on a 2019 Mac pro/Catalina w/ VEP7 and lately it's been crashing on me every day, especially if I switch between projects. I'm pretty fed up and can't take it anymore, so I'm wondering:
- would upgrading to DP11 offer more stability?

DP11 has not been crashing for me (Once I got past plugin scanning). DP10 was not crashing on me before that either. I don't think most people were having that kind of constant problem with DP10 crashing. So will upgrading to DP 11 solve your problem? Maybe, but I think you need to look deeper into what is causing it to crash on you first...because DP11 may very well have the same problem for you as you are having now... I don't think that is typical DP10 behavior.

- should I switch to another DAW? I tried Logic and hated it, but downloaded a demo of Cubase and I think I could get onboard once I get used it, but not sure if it's more stable than DP.

As I said, I don't think your crashing is for sure going to be solved even by switching DAW's, something is going on with your setup which may or may not even be related to MOTU software. In my mind the compelling reason to change DAW's is for features you need or want in the other DAW.
 

dts_marin

Active Member
I've searched it for any mention of the issue, but I haven't registered there. Support from MOTU seems quite prompt and thorough, so I'll see if support can help with the issue before creating another internet account :-P

EDIT: Issue resolved by uninstalling Komplete Kontrol and then re-installing it from scratch. Not sure what the issue was, but the "Re-Install" option in Native Access wasn't enough to get it done. I had to uninstall from Control Panel and then install from Native Access. Once I did that, it showed up in Digital Performer 11.

Time to start playing with it!

Off the bat, I'm really liking how the Articulation Maps work. They have scoring symbols and text built into the notation for almost everything in my expression maps, and it automatically assigns the correct one to almost every articulation.

Very click heavy user experience, though...
Exactly, really click heavy UX. Many actions are mouse exclusive and impossible to automate even with advanced macros. They need to make everything that makes sense accessible via keyboard and add a basic macro creator.
 

Trensharo

Active Member
Exactly, really click heavy UX. Many actions are mouse exclusive and impossible to automate even with advanced macros. They need to make everything that makes sense accessible via keyboard and add a basic macro creator.
Keyboard shortcuts are configurable, like most any other DAW. Looking through the GUI, most things that matter are available via keyboard shortcuts. Issue is every DAW has its own distinct keybinds. There is no standard like there is for software that generally follow CUA conventions for common functions.

Generally, I prefer to just map a Tartarus/Naga Profile and put all equivalent basic functions on the same buttons regardless of DAW, NLE, etc. This makes jumping between software packages fairly trivial - e.g. "Insert Track" is the same button whether I'm using Pro Tools, Cubase, Studio One, etc.

The lack of drag and drop for Instruments, FX, etc. creates a lot of extra clicks, though, and really affects the "feel" of using the software. I guess one can say that it feels more like Pro Tools than Cubase in terms of operation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AEF

dts_marin

Active Member
Keyboard shortcuts are configurable, like most any other DAW. Looking through the GUI, most things that matter are available via keyboard shortcuts. Issue is every DAW has its own distinct keybinds. There is no standard like there is for software that generally follow CUA conventions for common functions.

Generally, I prefer to just map a Tartarus/Naga Profile and put all equivalent basic functions on the same buttons regardless of DAW, NLE, etc. This makes jumping between software packages fairly trivial - e.g. "Insert Track" is the same button whether I'm using Pro Tools, Cubase, Studio One, etc.

The lack of drag and drop for Instruments, FX, etc. creates a lot of extra clicks, though, and really affects the "feel" of using the software. I guess one can say that it feels more like Pro Tools than Cubase in terms of operation.
You might not have understood what I said here. Of course the provided keyboard shortcuts are configurable. The problem with DP is that a LOT of actions can't be accessed without a mouse which slows things considerably. e.g. you want to change track color? You need to click. You want to edit articulation maps you need to click...

Studio One and Reaper are far better and put a lot of the actions accessible via keyboard or their respective macro editor or action window which opens possibilities for efficient automation of tasks.
 
I think you need to look deeper into what is causing it to crash on you first...because DP11 may very well have the same problem for you as you are having now... I don't think that is typical DP10 behavior.

something is going on with your setup which may or may not even be related to MOTU software. In my mind the compelling reason to change DAW's is for features you need or want in the other DAW.

Good point, I haven't looked into other causes yet. I suppose there could be some faulty RAM at play here. I'll do some troubleshooting and see if I find anything.
 

Trensharo

Active Member
You might not have understood what I said here. Of course the provided keyboard shortcuts are configurable. The problem with DP is that a LOT of actions can't be accessed without a mouse which slows things considerably. e.g. you want to change track color? You need to click. You want to edit articulation maps you need to click...

Studio One and Reaper are far better and put a lot of the actions accessible via keyboard or their respective macro editor or action window which opens possibilities for efficient automation of tasks.
Most things you can set a shortcut for. Dorico is another application where a lot of useful functions aren’t keybound by default.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
I see that is a very small issue. DP has the commands thing for getting to any feature quick. You can assign hot keys to almost everything, and for the couple of things you might have to use a mouse (gasp) there is always Keyboard Maestro to solve it. This is not a serious consideration to make or break DP.

Comparing DP's gui to Reaper's is ludicrous. Reaper gui is crap.

StudioOne arguably has a lot of cool work flow productivity features above just about all the other daw's including DP, no doubt about that...
 

dts_marin

Active Member
I see that is a very small issue. DP has the commands thing for getting to any feature quick. You can assign hot keys to almost everything, and for the couple of things you might have to use a mouse (gasp) there is always Keyboard Maestro to solve it. This is not a serious consideration to make or break DP.

Comparing DP's gui to Reaper's is ludicrous. Reaper gui is crap.

StudioOne arguably has a lot of cool work flow productivity features above just about all the other daw's including DP, no doubt about that...
All those little things add up. Computers are designed around the keyboard. Even after decades of the addition of the mouse the keyboard still can do everything in a well designed software/OS. The mouse was a later addition and it isn't intuitive for repetitive tasks. DAWs have a ton of repetitive tasks.

Reaper and Studio One are special because they give access to behind the scenes data for a lot of functions which can be quite powerful.

To be fair my only experiences with DAWs are with DP and Reaper. Maybe other DAWs are a lot more restrictive than DP.

But the mouse isn't the best tool. Yeah it's convenient and you don't need to do anything else to use it but what if you want smarter and more reliable control?
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
chunks and other unique features of DP add up to WAY more then you are making out of that mole hill. As I said you can solve your keyboard frustration with Keyboard Maestro.
 

Trensharo

Active Member
Figured out the Windows Key issue. DP uses the Windows key for a lot of keyboard shortcuts in the application, so it basically takes it over. It's a really awful thing they adopted when porting the application over from macOS.

I can't believe any developer would even think of doing such a thing. Imagine if Microsoft Word took over the Command Key in macOS and disabled all system-level keyboard shortcuts when it was in focus.
 

dterry

New Member
Figured out the Windows Key issue. DP uses the Windows key for a lot of keyboard shortcuts in the application, so it basically takes it over. It's a really awful thing they adopted when porting the application over from macOS.

I can't believe any developer would even think of doing such a thing. Imagine if Microsoft Word took over the Command Key in macOS and disabled all system-level keyboard shortcuts when it was in focus.
I've never found that to be a limitation but an advantage. It opens up many more key command combinations, and the ability to configure key commands around common modifiers to improve memorability and efficiency. The only thing I ever use the Windows key for is to pull up the Start Menu, and once in a DAW, I just don't need it. I actually wish other DAWs would take over the windows key. It's wasted key space for me most of the time.
 

Trensharo

Active Member
I've never found that to be a limitation but an advantage. It opens up many more key command combinations, and the ability to configure key commands around common modifiers to improve memorability and efficiency. The only thing I ever use the Windows key for is to pull up the Start Menu, and once in a DAW, I just don't need it. I actually wish other DAWs would take over the windows key. It's wasted key space for me most of the time.
How you use your PC is your prerogative, but WinKey is used in a ton of basic global keyboard shortcuts. Taking over it with an application is terrible. You can't even lock your PC if the Windows Key is taken over, unless you mouse over to Start and click three times. The Keyboard Shortcut uses the Windows key. It's not out of the realm of possibility that someone may want to lock their screen while DP is the active application... Or minimize everything to the desktop (Win-D). Or Open a File Explorer Windows (Win-E). Or Maximize (Win-Up) or Restore (Win-Down) an Application.

Most Accessibility Tools on the Windows OS are accessed using the keyboard shortcuts involving the Windows Key... Do you not see how this is a horrible idea?

There is a reason why NO OTHER DEVELOPER uses teh Windows Key for application shortcuts, and the only utilities that lock it are the Function-Win combo in some [gaming] keyboards and gaming presentation utilities that incorporate the function to avoid the user "windowing out" of a full screen task.

There are like 30+ system level global key commands in the OS that use that key. The key is used by the OS precisely to AVOID CLASHING WITH THIRD PARTY APPLICATION SHORTCUTS. By doing this, MOTU has basically designed their DAW to break the system whenever it is in focus.

It should be reserved for Windows, not taken hostage by applications. This is a horrible application design. 100% Broken by Design.

Your statement is nice - in theory - but this isn't the opening up of additional keyboard shortcuts. This seems like lazy porting from macOS to Windows. Because Windows Keyboards do not have a Command Key, MOTU seems to have decided to treat the Windows Key as if it functioned equivalently to Command on macOS; and merely replacing Command in the Key bindings with WinKey when they ported it over to Windows.

They did this with no thought being put to what the ramifications would be to the usability and accessibility of the user's system when their application is in focus.

That's without even getting to the complete disregard for standard key bindings for basic operations on the platform.

Tiny fonts, but literally blocks the Windows System shortcut for the Magnifier. How ironic.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom