Thank you for testing - that narrows it down quite a bit more as being a DP issue. I'll file a TechLink with MOTU and see if they can offer some input. It would probably help narrow things down if you and/or other Mac users contact them as well. I know plenty of DP users run large templates, so maybe it works better for others. It does sound like something MOTU will have to address. I really doubt an RX 3080 with 12G of VRAM would make much of a difference, but if that's what it takes to run DP, MOTU needs to do some optimizing (the 3080 is over $2k).
Now here...MOTU DP11
- Thread starter cmillar
- Start date
machinesworking
Member
It might be down to a preference setting or something weird like that? I’m able to make most of the motu DP training webinars, I will try to get Matt Lepoint their LA man who runs them to address it, no doubt he’s dealt with it considering he works with Elfman etc.
machinesworking
Member
So on the M1 MacBook Air, using Create Tracks , one VEP instance, 500 MIDI tracks, it takes no time to switch to the Tracks window, a little over two seconds to switch to the Sequence window and almost 4 seconds to switch to the Mixer?!... ouch! Scrolling is absolutely fine here. I'll test the similar to Dewdmans Mac Pro here and see if it's better/worse there.
At least scrolling is improved on the M1. Some parts of GUI response seem likely to benefit from the faster memory access in the M1 architecture, but the rest looks like inefficient graphics handling in DP.
A partial workaround for switching edit windows, and the mixer is to switch to pop-out (Sequence editor and Mixer in my case), and leave them open. It seems they are completely redrawn/rebuilt every time they are loaded if closed, or kept in the consolidated window. I just use single-key commands to switch between, bringing the one recalled into focus.
This doesn't solve the impossibly slow scrolling through channels in the Mixer though, and the Sequence editor is still a bit sluggish to scroll through tracks compared to the Tracks window. And the Track Selector is still painfully slow in the Track window sidebar, and Mixer. Nearly unusable.
I also tested 300-audio tracks - similar results. In addition, zooming in and out is slow, especially during playback. Realtime load jumps to 50% with just one track of audio (the rest empty). 300 empty audio tracks sits at 25% Realtime load. No idea why DP needs that much overhead just to host empty audio tracks. No PDC, buffering or pregen would be needed. It seems to have a huge overhead just to load the GUI. Maybe it is time DP dropped the static graphics GUI and went with a fully vector GUI a la Cubase, Studio One, etc. I know that's easier said than done, and may not even be possible.
A partial workaround for switching edit windows, and the mixer is to switch to pop-out (Sequence editor and Mixer in my case), and leave them open. It seems they are completely redrawn/rebuilt every time they are loaded if closed, or kept in the consolidated window. I just use single-key commands to switch between, bringing the one recalled into focus.
This doesn't solve the impossibly slow scrolling through channels in the Mixer though, and the Sequence editor is still a bit sluggish to scroll through tracks compared to the Tracks window. And the Track Selector is still painfully slow in the Track window sidebar, and Mixer. Nearly unusable.
I also tested 300-audio tracks - similar results. In addition, zooming in and out is slow, especially during playback. Realtime load jumps to 50% with just one track of audio (the rest empty). 300 empty audio tracks sits at 25% Realtime load. No idea why DP needs that much overhead just to host empty audio tracks. No PDC, buffering or pregen would be needed. It seems to have a huge overhead just to load the GUI. Maybe it is time DP dropped the static graphics GUI and went with a fully vector GUI a la Cubase, Studio One, etc. I know that's easier said than done, and may not even be possible.
Dewdman42
Senior Member
It takes mine at least 20 seconds to switch to the mixer view and completely unable to scroll. I created 500 midi tracks and 500 instrument tracks, no VePro.
machinesworking
Member
can confirm it's almost twice as long to open up the mixer on an Intel Mac Pro 7+ seconds each time. It's also choppier scrolling on the Mac Pro? So this is as DP issue for sure, a quick check, putting all 500 tracks into 5 folders and closing them for all windows makes them all open up just fine, DP seems to need to scan all the visible tracks for some reason? IMO it might be more due to DP's Track selection features, a test putting 100 tracks apiece into 5 folders made switching massively quicker. Not a bad way to work in general with big templates, but the Mixer being the worst and the least useful in Folders.... IMO it's something to write them about, they seem to be on an optimizing and catching up with the Joneses phase so....
machinesworking
Member
ouch! no wonder it's bogged down though. I just added 499 VEP instances and it's still creating them!
machinesworking
Member
the workaround is definitely track folders from what I can tell, hopefully there's another answer to it that works better with the mixer though..
Kevin Fortin
Active Member
I don't know about full courses, but on YouTube I would suggest these channels:
motuTV
David Das
Bo Astrup
Even though some of the videos might be a few years old, they would still be relevant, and if you are already familiar with Cubase you won't need the beginner 101 stuff anyway.
Compared to Cubase, I think some of DP's major differences would be:
bundles for audio routing at the project level
[edit: separate MIDI and instrument tracks]
sequences and chunks
the V-rack
Hoping this gives you a good start, and of course there are some here who are much more familiar with DP than I, who could probably answer your questions better as they come up.
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musicalweather
Senior Member
Just upgraded tonight, and so far have not taken a deep dive with DP 11 yet. But -- so far I love it! I loooove the articulation maps (this is really the whole reason for me upgrading). I've been busy importing maps from Cubase -- it's all worked without a hitch. I really like how one can drag notes down to the appropriate articulation row in the editor, or use a pencil to effectively do the same thing. Very happy so far.
machinesworking
Member
So I just went through an M1 stress test with the available DAWs on my system, and it's pretty wild really. DP is trouncing everyone on the M1 Air here, not even close. https://vi-control.net/community/threads/diva-stress-test-5-daw-shootout-dp11-by-a-long-shot.116740/
musicalweather
Senior Member
It looks like the color of the velocities in the midi edit window have changed. They're now light gray, against a lighter gray background. Yuck! Anyone know if this can be changed?
No way to change the color of velocities that I can find (nothing in the Style files). It was probably chosen using the Default, dark DP 11 theme, but you are right, it is terrible with other themes. Using grey for active data makes no sense.
The crossgrade is only $195, currently, so I picked it up. I'm noticing some really bad VST Support, both for VST2 and VST3. Plug-ins that run everywhere else fail in Digital Performer. Basically have to keep both versions installed because in many cases one fails while the other doesn't.
Running on Windows.
I cannot get Komplete Kontrol to load. It scans, and it's enabled, but it isn't in the plug-in list for Instruments or Effects. Anyone know why that is?
Text is still a bit small and I'd prefer if the text was less tiny without me having to blow up the entire user interface. I think it will be fine on my desktop, though. Comparing to Studio One, it isn't super bad... It just has more text in the general UI.
Running on Windows.
I cannot get Komplete Kontrol to load. It scans, and it's enabled, but it isn't in the plug-in list for Instruments or Effects. Anyone know why that is?
Text is still a bit small and I'd prefer if the text was less tiny without me having to blow up the entire user interface. I think it will be fine on my desktop, though. Comparing to Studio One, it isn't super bad... It just has more text in the general UI.
machinesworking
Member
I there’s what I would consider a cross platform bug with VST3 Reason Rack and a few other multi instruments that might be affecting Komplete Control where it loads only in audio or Aux tracks, you then point a midi track at it and it works. Hope that helps.
Weird bug, but motu have their own audio protocol like ASIO and VST combined called MOTU Audio System or MAS, and all formats pass through it. So they need to rewrite their VST2-3 MAS plug in to recognize VSTi’s with audio inputs as instruments and not FX.
It's not showing up anywhere, regardless of track type.
It is as if it is not installed...
Kind of a showstopper. I don't really consider it usable if I cannot access this plug-in. I might put in for a refund, since the problem is likely known and it's been like.. 5 (?) months since DP 11 was released... A fix is likely not coming soon'ish.
It is as if it is not installed...
Kind of a showstopper. I don't really consider it usable if I cannot access this plug-in. I might put in for a refund, since the problem is likely known and it's been like.. 5 (?) months since DP 11 was released... A fix is likely not coming soon'ish.
Also, there is some weirdness where if DP is running, my Windows key does not work. It only works when DP does not have focus.
After installation, I actually thought my laptop keyboard was broken because of this.
Makes multi-tasking a PITA because you must click out of DP or use the mouse to click the start menu. I've never had an application block something like that before.
After installation, I actually thought my laptop keyboard was broken because of this.
Makes multi-tasking a PITA because you must click out of DP or use the mouse to click the start menu. I've never had an application block something like that before.
Gary Williamson
Fitzface
I sold my DP 10 license, it was blocking all kind of plugins that were fine on S1 and was buggy. I bought Cubase 11 and all is good on that platform(on PC anyway) If you're on PC , I would not recommend DP, lots of pros use it bit I think they're on Macs?
