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Now here...MOTU DP11

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Ok I take it back. I just create quickly a 500 track project.... first of all switching between tabs in the consolidated window takes a very long time. its like DP is rendering a lot of stuff before it will switch. Secondly I can't even scroll the mixer at all.

So whatever is going on, is not just Windows. And I view this as fairly serious if you are in need of large templates.
 
I have reported several issues to MOTU, including this one a few versions back. I'll contact them again and see what might come of it. The system is an i7, 64G ram, GTX 960 card (2G VRam). It's plenty for Cubase, ProTools, etc, so this sluggishness could be unique to Windows, or Windows plus some system element neither MOTU or I am aware of.

I see you have a MacPro 5.1. If it runs well there, then this is likely Windows related, not system. My i7 is comparable (6 physical cores, 12 virtual, 3.6GHz). I would be curious to see how a new M1 (even with only 16G Ram) performs with DP11 and VEPro linked to external slave PCs. If it is fast and responsive, that could be an option, at least for some looking to switch to DP.
It could be your video card. the only beyond OS difference I see is I’ve got the RX 580 8gb, maybe take a look at GPU resources?
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
MW did you try to create a 500 track project? I immediately had similar results even with just 500 empty tracks... I also have the RX580. I don't think that's the issue.
 

dterry

New Member
Ok I take it back. I just create quickly a 500 track project.... first of all switching between tabs in the consolidated window takes a very long time. its like DP is rendering a lot of stuff before it will switch. Secondly I can't even scroll the mixer at all.

So whatever is going on, is not just Windows. And I view this as fairly serious if you are in need of large templates.
Thank you for testing - that narrows it down quite a bit more as being a DP issue. I'll file a TechLink with MOTU and see if they can offer some input. It would probably help narrow things down if you and/or other Mac users contact them as well. I know plenty of DP users run large templates, so maybe it works better for others. It does sound like something MOTU will have to address. I really doubt an RX 3080 with 12G of VRAM would make much of a difference, but if that's what it takes to run DP, MOTU needs to do some optimizing (the 3080 is over $2k).
 
Thank you for testing - that narrows it down quite a bit more as being a DP issue. I'll file a TechLink with MOTU and see if they can offer some input. It would probably help narrow things down if you and/or other Mac users contact them as well. I know plenty of DP users run large templates, so maybe it works better for others. It does sound like something MOTU will have to address. I really doubt an RX 3080 with 12G of VRAM would make much of a difference, but if that's what it takes to run DP, MOTU needs to do some optimizing (the 3080 is over $2k).
It might be down to a preference setting or something weird like that? I’m able to make most of the motu DP training webinars, I will try to get Matt Lepoint their LA man who runs them to address it, no doubt he’s dealt with it considering he works with Elfman etc.
 
So on the M1 MacBook Air, using Create Tracks , one VEP instance, 500 MIDI tracks, it takes no time to switch to the Tracks window, a little over two seconds to switch to the Sequence window and almost 4 seconds to switch to the Mixer?!... ouch! Scrolling is absolutely fine here. I'll test the similar to Dewdmans Mac Pro here and see if it's better/worse there.
 

dterry

New Member
At least scrolling is improved on the M1. Some parts of GUI response seem likely to benefit from the faster memory access in the M1 architecture, but the rest looks like inefficient graphics handling in DP.

A partial workaround for switching edit windows, and the mixer is to switch to pop-out (Sequence editor and Mixer in my case), and leave them open. It seems they are completely redrawn/rebuilt every time they are loaded if closed, or kept in the consolidated window. I just use single-key commands to switch between, bringing the one recalled into focus.

This doesn't solve the impossibly slow scrolling through channels in the Mixer though, and the Sequence editor is still a bit sluggish to scroll through tracks compared to the Tracks window. And the Track Selector is still painfully slow in the Track window sidebar, and Mixer. Nearly unusable.

I also tested 300-audio tracks - similar results. In addition, zooming in and out is slow, especially during playback. Realtime load jumps to 50% with just one track of audio (the rest empty). 300 empty audio tracks sits at 25% Realtime load. No idea why DP needs that much overhead just to host empty audio tracks. No PDC, buffering or pregen would be needed. It seems to have a huge overhead just to load the GUI. Maybe it is time DP dropped the static graphics GUI and went with a fully vector GUI a la Cubase, Studio One, etc. I know that's easier said than done, and may not even be possible.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
So on the M1 MacBook Air, using Create Tracks , one VEP instance, 500 MIDI tracks, it takes no time to switch to the Tracks window, a little over two seconds to switch to the Sequence window and almost 4 seconds to switch to the Mixer?!... ouch! Scrolling is absolutely fine here. I'll test the similar to Dewdmans Mac Pro here and see if it's better/worse there.

It takes mine at least 20 seconds to switch to the mixer view and completely unable to scroll. I created 500 midi tracks and 500 instrument tracks, no VePro.
 
can confirm it's almost twice as long to open up the mixer on an Intel Mac Pro 7+ seconds each time. It's also choppier scrolling on the Mac Pro? So this is as DP issue for sure, a quick check, putting all 500 tracks into 5 folders and closing them for all windows makes them all open up just fine, DP seems to need to scan all the visible tracks for some reason? IMO it might be more due to DP's Track selection features, a test putting 100 tracks apiece into 5 folders made switching massively quicker. Not a bad way to work in general with big templates, but the Mixer being the worst and the least useful in Folders.... IMO it's something to write them about, they seem to be on an optimizing and catching up with the Joneses phase so....
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
I created as unassigned instrument tracks though...but anyway, I think the main problem is not related to specific instruments...just having lots of tracks of rendering DP unusable really.
 
I created as unassigned instrument tracks though...but anyway, I think the main problem is not related to specific instruments...just having lots of tracks of rendering DP unusable really.
the workaround is definitely track folders from what I can tell, hopefully there's another answer to it that works better with the mixer though..
 

Kevin Fortin

Active Member
As a follow up question, are there any good dp beginner courses out there that are up to date?
I don't know about full courses, but on YouTube I would suggest these channels:
motuTV
David Das
Bo Astrup

Even though some of the videos might be a few years old, they would still be relevant, and if you are already familiar with Cubase you won't need the beginner 101 stuff anyway.

Compared to Cubase, I think some of DP's major differences would be:
bundles for audio routing at the project level
[edit: separate MIDI and instrument tracks]
sequences and chunks
the V-rack

Hoping this gives you a good start, and of course there are some here who are much more familiar with DP than I, who could probably answer your questions better as they come up.
 
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musicalweather

Senior Member
Just upgraded tonight, and so far have not taken a deep dive with DP 11 yet. But -- so far I love it! I loooove the articulation maps (this is really the whole reason for me upgrading). I've been busy importing maps from Cubase -- it's all worked without a hitch. I really like how one can drag notes down to the appropriate articulation row in the editor, or use a pencil to effectively do the same thing. Very happy so far.
 

musicalweather

Senior Member
It looks like the color of the velocities in the midi edit window have changed. They're now light gray, against a lighter gray background. Yuck! Anyone know if this can be changed?
 

bdr

Active Member
I recently did a film using DP11 and a biggish template. Every issue of slowness that I had appeared to be related to mixer redraw. I'm still on a MacPro 5,1 but it's about as quick as you can make one of them.
 
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