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Now here...MOTU DP11

60s Pop Man

New Member
A friend of mine upgraded to DP11 and he has found that the Smart Quantize function no longer works. When he makes a selection of midi and runs Smart Quantize, it does absolutely nothing. Is anyone else seeing that behavior?
I can confirm that Smart Quantize is not working here either.
Tell your friend to submit a MOTU Techlink describing this problem. I just submitted one. The more reports they receive will confirm this as an issue and not some quirk on one individual's computer system.
 

lucor

Senior Member
ding ding ding.... they added articulation latency correction to the 11.01 articulation manager! That will be a big deal!
Oooh, that would indeed be a game changer for keyswitching. Hopefully this will motivate Presonus to add the same thing to Sound Variations.
 

60s Pop Man

New Member
Smart Quantize is now working.

VST3 versions of Kontakt 6.x, HALion 6, Groove Agent 5 continue to fail plug-in scanning even when running in Rosetta.

[Edit - can enter custom names when the instrument is in a MIDI Device Group] Drum editor - still can't enter custom names.

So, a mixed bag for me.
 
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dts_marin

Member
The articulation delay feature is extremely promising but at the same time rushed.

  • 200ms limit which is too low for some libraries. You can stack multiple delays but I don't know if this breaks anything else and deviates from intended functionality/stability of the feature.
  • One would expect that only the attacks would be delayed positively/negatively but that isn't the case. This causes a lot of issues during playback and recording. I don't think this is a limitation of MIDI because the extend note option works but it is doing the opposite. MOTU could fix this issue by tweaking the extend note option to be in milliseconds (negative or positive) instead of percentage but they didn't listen to my request.

Btw negative delays also appear to break continuous data overdub. And sometimes Event Chasing doesn't work correctly.


That said, kudos to MOTU! Now CSS is finally more manageable in DP.
 

60s Pop Man

New Member
You should be able to edit drum names but use a midi device group or something like that
Yes, that works. There was a time notes could be named and saved in the Drum Editor without the instrument being in a the MIDI Device Group.

Custom note names in the Drum Editor are not saved, they should be, but they're not.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
The articulation delay feature is extremely promising but at the same time rushed.

  • 200ms limit which is too low for some libraries. You can stack multiple delays but I don't know if this breaks anything else and deviates from intended functionality/stability of the feature.
  • One would expect that only the attacks would be delayed positively/negatively but that isn't the case. This causes a lot of issues during playback and recording. I don't think this is a limitation of MIDI because the extend note option works but it is doing the opposite. MOTU could fix this issue by tweaking the extend note option to be in milliseconds (negative or positive) instead of percentage but they didn't listen to my request.

Btw negative delays also appear to break continuous data overdub. And sometimes Event Chasing doesn't work correctly.

Its unfortunate they didn't put more thought into it or actually talk to some of us. make sure to submit reports to [email protected]. When I get a chance to test it out I will also.

Some of us have put a lot of thought into this issue and it seems like they just thought they could throw in an easy offset to make everyone happy, but its going to need more attention to really get it "right". I guess at least what they did is is not much different then if you had each articulation on its own track and using track offset. It would behave about the same way.

But I think they didn't realize that for this to really work right for this purpose, it needs to only offset NoteOn events, and leave all other midi events on their normally scheduled time...EXCEPT for the ones that are keyswitches..which need to happen before their intended NoteOns..
 

Al Maurice

Active Member
When you'll hardly switching articulations one track offset works well.

In any case having the ability to set the delay on midi 'note on's is handy. I find quite often different articulations in libraries have varying levels of latency, which makes it difficult to handle cohesive lines with just a single track.

As a first step, I think we should be thankful that some kind of delay is possible and accept that it's now there. Motu seems to be quite forward looking too, demonstrated by their clips/region feature and now support for libraries which use sound variation, and now articulation offsets.
 
I've used DP on an off since I was young, Performer in the 80's as a teenager a bit even. DP in the mid 90's. I'm more of a rock, electronic music writer but I've always gravitated back to DP.

Odd way of putting it but people often talk of feature creep etc. as a bad thing but to me I want my main DAW to do pretty much everything, DP is hitting all the marks at this point.

I went off on a search for MPE a couple years ago because DP and my other DAW at the time Live both didn't natively support it, extensive time in Reaper, Bitwig, and bought a copy of Logic again (used it from v4 to 8), but I'm back in DP for the most part. I can't get over Logic's MIDI input limitations, and Reaper is too much like using Excel.

Anyway good to find a DP friendly thread here. A lot of people seem put off by it, and I kinda get it, it's all about templates, and coming up with a workflow that you design, not as much conforming to DP's idea on how you will work with it. This means you can get pretty lost right away if you're not careful.
 

60s Pop Man

New Member
Odd way of putting it but people often talk of feature creep etc. as a bad thing but to me I want my main DAW to do pretty much everything, DP is hitting all the marks at this point.
There's feature creep and then there's essential features for a modern workflow with minimal 3rd party add-ons$.

So yes, definitely, DP11 is hitting mark where I can use it a my primary DAW.

Cheers.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Oh there's still room for DP to grow. Numerous things that could be reworked and refined, if nothing else. I don't particularly think it needs a lot of "feature creep" per say, but then again...I thought I could live without the CLIPS feature until I saw a MOTU video about it and suddenly I'm like hey I should try to use that more...

what comes next? I have no idea. But the DAW makers will think of something, else they won't have a way to generate upgrade revenue.

MOTU could easily do things like:

  1. add more and better software instruments bundled with it
  2. Improved Patch library facility (similar as LogicPro's, for example)
  3. Modern shortcut work flows that rival StudioOne
  4. Iteratively improve articulation management, DP11 was a good start.
  5. Update the score editor massively
  6. Improve things like the drum editor so that you can edit the drum names without jumping through hoops
  7. Improve Midi Device Groups so that you can organize them better as bundles or save in folder tree, etc.. things like that, able to name midi ports better without having to use MDG even.
  8. make it possible to automate plugin parameters that are hosted on V-Racks
  9. Create a mixer channel UI like Cubase has to make it faster and easier to deal with typical channel strip EQ, compression, gating, etc..
  10. Instrument tracks able to have midi events directly (gasp)
  11. AUmfx and VST midi plugin hosting directly in instrument tracks (similar as LogicPro)
  12. chord track type functionality
  13. More thorough use of next gen pre gen for all plugins, including for example VePro
  14. Advanced MIDI editing along the lines of Cubase and LogicPro Transformers
  15. Scripting plugin
  16. etc..
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Well they had one and didn't keep it up to date and now you can't run it on latest iOS. I doubt that they would do that again, but what would be good is if they did something web based like all of their hardware products...then you could use it anywhere on any device...

At a minimum it would be nice to have touch pad control fo transport and some basic mixer control in order to sit at a midi controller across the room and control DP remotely from there. I agree. In the meantime, this issue is not really a show stopper because of third party solutions and DP already has a very robust OSC api....
 

kgdrum

Greetings
Well they had one and didn't keep it up to date and now you can't run it on latest iOS. I doubt that they would do that again, but what would be good is if they did something web based like all of their hardware products...then you could use it anywhere on any device...

At a minimum it would be nice to have touch pad control fo transport and some basic mixer control in order to sit at a midi controller across the room and control DP remotely from there. I agree. In the meantime, this issue is not really a show stopper because of third party solutions and DP already has a very robust OSC api....
yeah it would enhance the DP workflow enormously,also having the DP manual accessible via the app would be sweet!
 
Funny how this works, everyone's list of improvements is always different.
Mine are mostly about UX issues.

1. Clips are half done.

Like Logic there's no clip for the Conductor track. Bitwig and Live both allow each horizontal session clip to dictate tempo, this is super useful for obvious reasons.

Clips are always input quantized in DP, in other DAWs you can choose to fire clips without quantization.

Clips are not integrated into DPs edit or selection system, so no editing the MIDI or audio in a clip in the Drum, Graphic, Score, Event editors. DP Doesn't see Clips at all until unpacked. There is the basic Clip Editor window and that's it. IMO it's particularly awkward that the Drum editor doesn't see Clips.

Selection preferences for Clip Tracks don't exist, so if you have a MIDI track and a MIDI Clip track, selecting Show Only / Soundbites or Notes does not show MIDI or Audio Clip Tracks, and there is no selection to show tracks with Clips in them, so effectively you can't 'show all tracks with data written to them' as a selection choice if you use Clips.

2. Track folders can't be folded, unfolded by key command; you should be able to set up a key command to fold and to unfold all folders. There are few other things that could use a key command.

3. Track Selection in DP is great, super quick etc. but the way it translates between the Sequence, Tracks and Mixer has never made sense to me. There should be some way have whatever you selected in the Tracks window 'stick' and show only those tracks in the Mixer and Sequence windows. I like that there is the ability to save selections, but there should be some simple rules that selection follows.

4. In every set up I've had turning on and off the Memory Cycle when the sequence is running causes a solid audio drop out. I get instantiating a plug in while the sequence is running could do this, but Memory Cycle has no such excuse, no other DAW I've used does this.

5. Dewdman mentioned the Content Browser, it's another IMO less than half finished new feature. I find it's great for Clippings and thats about it, Every other section is better accessed from the Finder in Mac OS, and I would bet Explorer in Windows. Audio files auditioned there are selection, then wait, there's no visual feedback anything is happening, there's no way to adjust the volume, the freaking slider is in DP's Preferences... They don't play at the sequence tempo, they don't play at all when the sequence is running. To be fair, it's fantastic for Clippings, a much better way to access and organize Clippings than the annoying tiny window that can't be pinned to float.

6. GUI wise, tons of improvements. but the Clips window is a completely different size than the rest of DP. If enlarge the GUI then the Clips window becomes ridiculously huge.

7, In the Tracks window there should be a way to open and close the Track List panel down to just the track name with a key Command.

8. There should be a DP preferences package you could make with all of your Commands, various settings, MOTU plug in presets, all of it, in a single importable package. Something you can import into your next computer easily.

9. As has been mentioned the iOS app going away is a sin, they had the best one at the time it came out, but it just died. Logic is a prime example of what can be done with an iPad app and a DAW. I suspect the guy who coded it moved on to another company, but no real excuse, their apps for their MOTU hardware are all solid and there's obviously the talent there to do something.

10. resizable GUIs for their plug ins, this one kills me. MPE and the MX4 are a great pair. Didn't care for the MX4 until I messed with it and an MPE controller, it sounds great, but the GUI is tiny on my old 1920x1080 screen, can't imagine what it would look like on a 4k!

Anyway, as you can see I'm not of the impression that DP is finished, but mostly UX improvements to what is there is where I'm wishing for more.
 
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