What's new

Now here...MOTU DP11

stigc56

Senior Member
They're largely the same. I have both Cubase Pro and Studio One Pro. You're exaggerating.

I also think Cubase's lanes for Articulations are superior, and you also have the option of using Attribute Articulations.

Building, assigning, and using is easy in both of them. These things are unremarkable to discuss, frankly.

The only DAW that has done an appreciable improvement over Cubase (that affects workflow in a positive way) is Cakewalk, with its groups. I like that addition to them.

That being said, I am expecting Cubase to move to Dorico's Expression Maps System in the next version or so.
No they are very different ex. in the way you assign the articulation. I use a lot of VSL - the synchron libraries - with very large art. maps. here S1 is especially superior. Alone the automatic build of the map, that is supported by S1 & DP11 in conjunction with Synchron Player and Opus makes it so different. If you use smaller libraries with 5 - 10 - 20 art. then you could argue that there is no difference. In Cubase you have to decide if an articulation should be used as an Attribute or Direction in the map, in S1 you can use both at the same time.

Regarding groups:
Skærmbillede 2021-08-28 kl. 13.00.59.png
121 articulations nicely presented in groups the S1 list. And then we have the "used (soundvariation)" function:
Skærmbillede 2021-08-28 kl. 13.04.12.png

And then there is way S1 handles the midi thru articulation - that lets you play with the articulation currently selected!

It could be me, but I see it as a major workflow improvement.

And maybe you could hold back the arrogance a little. Assuming that everybody else is ignorant isn't healthy for a discussion.
And yes, for the record, I own and have been using/are using Cubase, Nuendo, S1, DP11 and LPX, in my everyday work as a Musical Director and composer, and have been doing it for more than 25 years.
 

mjsalam

Active Member
I think for some people V-Racks definitely could replace VePro....but not for me either. But you actually want to use both V-Racks AND VePro. By putting your VePro instruments (one per instance) into a V-Rack, or multiple V-Racks if you wish, then you can switch around between sequence chunks at will....they can all point to the same VePro, via the V-Rack. No other DAW can touch this workflow.
Very interesting...trying to wrap my head around this a bit. So the VEP instruments in the V-Rack basically function as a proxy or sorts and you can flip between chunks seamlessly. Very nice. Do you enable instruments in VEP as needed (ie. flip back and forth as you work) or does this really require a system beefy enough to just have all of the instruments in VEP enabled and ready to go?

If only there was a way to enable/disable track in VEP from DP.
 
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Tren

Member
No they are very different ex. in the way you assign the articulation. I use a lot of VSL - the synchron libraries - with very large art. maps. here S1 is especially superior. Alone the automatic build of the map, that is supported by S1 & DP11 in conjunction with Synchron Player and Opus makes it so different. If you use smaller libraries with 5 - 10 - 20 art. then you could argue that there is no difference. In Cubase you have to decide if an articulation should be used as an Attribute or Direction in the map, in S1 you can use both at the same time.

Regarding groups:
View attachment 56193
121 articulations nicely presented in groups the S1 list. And then we have the "used (soundvariation)" function:
View attachment 56194

And then there is way S1 handles the midi thru articulation - that lets you play with the articulation currently selected!

It could be me, but I see it as a major workflow improvement.

And maybe you could hold back the arrogance a little. Assuming that everybody else is ignorant isn't healthy for a discussion.
And yes, for the record, I own and have been using/are using Cubase, Nuendo, S1, DP11 and LPX, in my everyday work as a Musical Director and composer, and have been doing it for more than 25 years.
That's really not much different from Cubase, but we can all exaggerate disparities in to worlds of difference.
 

mjsalam

Active Member
You can enable and disable VEP channels from any DAW by using midi CC messages. Disabling will unload the instrument from memory on your server.
Could you help me understand this a bit better. I have tried using the parameter setting in VEP and it works but only for one track. Do I have to explicitly create this mapping for every channel/instrument in VEP? With a larger template won’t you run out of parameters? Anyhow - maybe I’m missing something. AnY help appreciated!
 

ka00

Senior Member
Yep they have people complaining about the locked webinars for over a year and nothing gets done. Imagine having hundreds of hours of educational material and choosing to alienate your customers (current and prospective) after a big release like DP11.
Yeah, what is up with this? Is there an official explanation? I installed the demo and really want to dig deep into learning materials. There are no Udemy courses, nothing on LinkedIn Learning. I found a handful of webinars on YouTube but it does seem like there’s a huge trove of material that could be released.
 

ka00

Senior Member
Could you help me understand this a bit better. I have tried using the parameter setting in VEP and it works but only for one track. Do I have to explicitly create this mapping for every channel/instrument in VEP? With a larger template won’t you run out of parameters? Anyhow - maybe I’m missing something. AnY help appreciated!
It’s been about a year since I set this up and I don’t have it in front of me. But in VEPro, you can open the automation mapping window and “learn” a midi button for disabling and can also learn the parameter you want disabled. This is way quicker than having to manually scroll through the list of midi ports and channels and CC’s you want to use.

But I use the same midi parameter for disabling any track. You don’t have to set up one CC to disable one instrument and a different CC to disable another. It’s always the same CC. Because as long as over in your DAW you’ve got the proper instrument track(s) highlighted/armed, when you press your disable button it will send that midi cc message to all the instruments in VEPro that those midi tracks in your DAW control.
 

mjsalam

Active Member
It’s been about a year since I set this up and I don’t have it in front of me. But in VEPro, you can open the automation mapping window and “learn” a midi button for disabling and can also learn the parameter you want disabled. This is way quicker than having to manually scroll through the list of midi ports and channels and CC’s you want to use.

But I use the same midi parameter for disabling any track. You don’t have to set up one CC to disable one instrument and a different CC to disable another. It’s always the same CC. Because as long as over in your DAW you’ve got the proper instrument track(s) highlighted/armed, when you press your disable button it will send that midi cc message to all the instruments in VEPro that those midi tracks in your DAW control.
Thanks for this - this is how I always imagined it should work but for whatever reason was never able to get it to work as such. Will give it another go and report back!
 

stigc56

Senior Member
That's really not much different from Cubase, but we can all exaggerate disparities in to worlds of difference.
I'm glad, that I'm not the only one who think Cubase needs to improve here. This is the thread from Steinberg Forum: https://forums.steinberg.net/t/expression-map-helpful-additions/104663/3.
Notice how many of the wanted features actually is implemented in S1, and that it's the third most wanted feature, but maybe you didn't know?

And I'm not trying to make a discussion, but we have to be open about our disagreement, and this thread is about the new, and surprising features of DP11, which has led to so much excitement and DP users, existing or future, deserve that we articulate, that the implementation of any kind articulation switching needs to be studied thoroughly before we can "pass the sentence".
In that regards the implementation in DP11 is a first step, and if you want to use it with ex. Timpani patch from VSL Synchron Percussion 1, you need a lot scrolling: You tell me if that will improve your workflow!
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Very interesting...trying to wrap my head around this a bit. So the VEP instruments in the V-Rack basically function as a proxy or sorts and you can flip between chunks seamlessly. Very nice.

If you put the vepro plugin directly in a sequence rather then a vrack, then keep in mind that vepro is designed such that for any given instance, only one vepro plugin instance can connect to it at the same time.

If you’re only using one sequence then it’s a moot point. If you use more then one sequence as chunks, then only one is active at once, but DP keeps plugins enabled even in sequences that are currently inactive, it seems. This means that only one sequence per DP project can use any particular given VePro instance. if you create additional sequences and try to use them, they will not be able to connect to the VePro instance that was already connected to a different sequence chunks (unless you manually disconnect them I guess?).

But anyway, by using vracks like a proxy as you put it, then no vepro connections need to be disturbed at all. The vrack is always active and always connected to vepro. Then whatever seq chunks you are using will have mainly just midi tracks that feed V-Racks, including the ones hosting VePro plugins. it provides the right seamless layer to truly treat VePro like a hardware rack that any of your midi tracks on any of your sequence chunks can send midi to at any time.

Sequence Chunks in DP are, in my opinion, that biggest differentiating feature of DP among a few others, but in my mind, this is the big one that provides a completely different workflow then everything else. Danny Elfman's masterclass touched on this point as to why he uses DP. He is able to create as many little sequence chunks as he wants, not only for putting all cues of a film into one project, or to build up songs from parts, but also just to have scratch pads, still inside the same project. You can go off on to a tangent and experiment with an idea in a scratch pad sequence chunk...and the rest of your project, including all cues of a film, for example if you want, or any other musical bits you feel like having in the project, can all be housed in various sequence chunks so you can switch around very quickly between these to work.

By using V-Racks and/or VePro on top of V-Racks...you can have them all share the same orchestra...and no re-load time either..the orchestra is always up and ready to go and its very painless to switch chunks that work with that shared orch.
 
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Dewdman42

Senior Member
I haven’t dived in yet to how to best handle enable disable instruments in vepro while never leaving the daw. Some other posts on this sound interesting. I generally just have vepro on another screen of the same machine and just do it directly in vepro. But eventually I will setup automation map in vepro so that I can do that sort of thing via touchpad which is another area i have yet to get into
 

Toecutter

Let's end this peacefully
Yeah, what is up with this? Is there an official explanation? I installed the demo and really want to dig deep into learning materials. There are no Udemy courses, nothing on LinkedIn Learning. I found a handful of webinars on YouTube but it does seem like there’s a huge trove of material that could be released.
Not that I'm aware of :thumbsdown: When I was testing DP11 I sent a message about the webinars and was ignored. Gatekeeping is not the way you get people to use your products, just saying.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
FWIW, my understanding is that not all of the webinars are suitable for reposting due to much informal conversation that took place in many of them...they were long...like 1-2 hours with people rambling on or getting into side discussions, etc. So they all have to be "edited" before they can be shared...and I reckon they just are doing the math and haven't found time to edit them. Its not a grand conspiracy to gatekeep you away form learning about DP.

I missed most of them also and am bummed about it, a lot of people have asked MOTU for them, at this point, they will either get to editing them or they won't. Subscribe to their notification and try to be present for new ones. At least a few of them are there, and they are generally useful, but yes quite long and detailed.

Groove3 has some DP8 and DP10 tutorials that are quite good and still very much applicable to DP11 in most cases. I advise to start there for now, I found them useful.

It is true there are not a lot of resources in books or videos about mastering DP. I guess it comes down to marketshare. When more people are using DP, more videos and books will come out.
 
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ka00

Senior Member
not all of the webinars are suitable for reposting due to much informal conversation that took place in many of them...they were long...like 1-2 hours with people rambling on or getting into side discussions, etc
That describes some music “masterclasses” I’ve purchased.

Even if it was 80% rambling and 20% instruction, I’d still watch.

Thanks, I’ll check out the groove3 courses if reading the getting started doc and manual doesn’t cut it.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
I hear ya, so would I. But I also respect MOTU decision to edit the videos before sharing them publicly...as it represents their company. Its completely understandable in my view, as is your and my desire to watch them anyway.
 

ka00

Senior Member
Groove3 has some DP8 and DP10 tutorials that are quite good and still very much applicable to DP11 in most cases. I advise to start there for now, I found them useful.
FYI, to anyone else wanting some training on DP: Groove3 has a two-for-one deal right now on downloads.
 

Al Maurice

Active Member
As far as the sparseness of videos are concerned, from what I've seen the UI of DP hasn't changed that much between the latest versions. So from my perspective -- those from DP9, which there are quite a lot of as many features we use now were realeased them, are equally applicable.

I found once you get to know the wherewithall for DP, then it's pretty much plain sailing as the UX is very consistent, enabling you to figure out other like-presented features intuitively.
 

60s Pop Man

New Member
I found once you get to know the wherewithall for DP, then it's pretty much plain sailing as the UX is very consistent, enabling you to figure out other like-presented features intuitively.
That sums up my experience.

The MOTU webinars that are available are like masterclasses with rich insights into how DP works. It's really frustrating that they're sitting on the shelf, no matter what the reason.
 
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cmillar

Active Member
Thread starter
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Need more help with DP?

Even with DP11, I still refer to my old manual from DP8 if I ever need to figure out some function I haven't used that much or that I need to understand better (...even after 20 years of DP there's so much power that in there that I still haven't used every possible function!)

And MOTU has any upgraded version changes available on their website, and they're written in the style of the manual. So there is lots of information available about DP.

So you could also just download one of the PDF manuals, or buy an old hard-copy manual from DP8 onwards and be able to grasp most of the functions.
 
A friend of mine upgraded to DP11 and he has found that the Smart Quantize function no longer works. When he makes a selection of midi and runs Smart Quantize, it does absolutely nothing. Is anyone else seeing that behavior?
 
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