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NotePerformer 3 - Artificial Intelligence-Based Playback for Sibelius, Finale & Dorico

Sami

The Undisclosing
I disagree. Dorico has potential but is a disaster at the moment. Noteperformer on Sibelius is a one of a kind workflow enhancer and although I don't like Sibelius, I am a professional with deadlines to hit and thus see no other choice but using it. When Dorico becomes as usable and fully featured I will switch immediately and will be happy that NP is supported
 
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Wallander

Wallander

Active Member
Hi @Wallander,
currently I'm quite seriously thinking about choosing Dorico as my notation buddy. This software is, in my opinion of course, fantastic, not only in terms of looks, but also in terms of how it works (this little DAW in there is to die for).

NotePerformer seems to be limited though. Either I'm doing something wrong, or there is no playback for trills, glissandos, not mentioning more advanced articulations. Are those things that you can override with your hacking skills and add with next NP update or we need to wait for Dorico team to adress these?
These techniques weren't overlooked on our behalf, but they are yet to be implemented in Dorico.

As NotePerformer readily supports trills of any interval when explicitly notated, and glissandos through the basic use of pitch bend, and we even support the full General MIDI dynamic range for pitch bend protocol, I expect these two things to start working the day Dorico adds them.

As far as more advanced articulations go, the underlying issue is that Dorico currently operates as a single-articulation device. So when Dorico encounters, for example, an accented slur on a muted violin, Dorico will choose just one out of these articulations (accent, slur and mute) and ignore, or turn off, the other articulations. Following a priority order that's internal to Dorico. And because of how this works, it's technically impossible to detect multiple articulations at the same time. In this particular case you could get an accent, but not muted or slurred. Or a muted note, but not slurred or accented.

You can, theoretically, access all of NotePerformer's articulations from Dorico by entering those MIDI switches manually into the MIDI lane. But I would recommend relying on this only to a basic extent, because the switches may be subject to change in the future. For the simple reason that it's still an open question how Dorico will deal with articulations and VST Expression Maps, when Dorico's playback matures.
 

Audio Birdi

Active Member
Can Note Performer be used to get a sense of how an orchestra is balanced against one another, instrument-wise at different dynamics?
 
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Wallander

Wallander

Active Member
Can Note Performer be used to get a sense of how an orchestra is balanced against one another, instrument-wise at different dynamics?
Yes, definitely!

Proof-listening is largely what NotePerformer is about. Giving you a true sense of what the music would sound like with a real ensemble, as in getting the proper reaction to balance, dynamics and articulation, and being able to use that as a reference for orchestration.
 

Audio Birdi

Active Member
Yes, definitely!

Proof-listening is largely what NotePerformer is about. Giving you a true sense of what the music would sound like with a real ensemble, as in getting the proper reaction to balance, dynamics and articulation, and being able to use that as a reference for orchestration.
That's great to know!

I'm planning on using the trial version of NotePerformer and also a trial version of Dorico or Sibelius or Finale.

Which Notation software would be best to use with NotePerformer at the moment since Finale and Dorico are still in Beta right now?

Thanks again for all your help!
 
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Wallander

Wallander

Active Member
That's great to know!

I'm planning on using the trial version of NotePerformer and also a trial version of Dorico or Sibelius or Finale.

Which Notation software would be best to use with NotePerformer at the moment since Finale and Dorico are still in Beta right now?

Thanks again for all your help!
You should use whatever notation software you prefer working with! E.g. quality of score output and feeling comfortable with the interface.

NotePerformer has had Sibelius support for a lot longer, so it's very refined and almost without any issues. But the integration between NotePerformer and Dorico or Finale is constantly improving.

The Finale version works very well when you create new scores. Most of the difficulties we see are with older .mus or .musx files that were adapted for other playback devices, or have strange document settings or legacy percussion staves. But when you're a new user to Finale, who solely rely on NotePerformer playback, this is a very capable combination if you simply follow our support guide for setting things up. The next NP release will hopefully resolve some of the issues with articulation determination, such as pizz/arco not always responding as expected, as we're going to switch from using MIDI controllers to using the exact same key switches as employed by Garritan's built-in sounds, to reduce the possibility of error.

The Dorico version is also getting closer to being picked out of beta. There are still things to be ironed out, but the latest Dorico update -released by Steinberg a few days ago- resolves many of the articulation determination issues in Dorico. The things that don't currently work, e.g. glissando, are yet to be implemented in Dorico. In Dorico you also have the added benefit of being able to do real-time MIDI record with NotePerformer, and getting automatic polyphonic quarter-tone playback, if you're into that.
 

Audio Birdi

Active Member
You should use whatever notation software you prefer working with! E.g. quality of score output and feeling comfortable with the interface.
Thank you for all the information Arne! :)

Would there be support for MuseScore or Notion in future for NotePerformer?
 
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Wallander

Wallander

Active Member
Thank you for all the information Arne! :)

Would there be support for MuseScore or Notion in future for NotePerformer?
I don't rule it out. But MuseScore doesn't support VST or AU instruments, at least not yet.

And with Notion we're struggling with the fact that Notion doesn't readily support multiple MIDI channels for virtual instruments, or changing programs over MIDI (Program Change). Notion wasn't designed for a General MIDI compatible output, which is similar to NP, but for monotimbral virtual instruments with the staff's program saved as a VST preset.
 

Audio Birdi

Active Member
I don't rule it out. But MuseScore doesn't support VST or AU instruments, at least not yet .... And with Notion we're struggling with the fact that Notion doesn't readily support multiple MIDI channels for virtual instruments, or changing programs over MIDI (Program Change).
Aaaah I see! hoping for both to be updated in future with the respected features that they're missing!

I'm curious to see if NP could be integrated into DAWs which have notation editors built in, in future too. REAPER / Logic / Cubase / Cakewalk all have notation implementation but obviously isn't the primary focus of inputting MIDI notation. Would be interesting to see if it could be a feature of NP being able to be used in future by these DAWs!
 

Rob

Senior Member
Can you describe the correct way to notate a trill in order to trigger it in NP? I’ve never been able to get this to work. Thank you.
trills work here in Dorico, but had to enable generated trills in Playback Options/Trills/Generated trills only
 

Dave Connor

Senior Member
trills work here in Dorico, but had to enable generated trills in Playback Options/Trills/Generated trills only
Thanks for mentioning what software Rob since I forgot to do that. I’m using Sibelius 6 and always end up writing out my trills. User error no doubt so I will be happy to know how to do it correctly.
 
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Wallander

Wallander

Active Member
Thanks for mentioning what software Rob since I forgot to do that. I’m using Sibelius 6 and always end up writing out my trills. User error no doubt so I will be happy to know how to do it correctly.
Both a trill line (tr~~~) and a simple "tr" symbol should do it. With the caveat that the basic "tr" symbol in Sibelius doesn't have the "+trill" sound ID attached to it, by default, in the Dictionary, meaning it won't automatically be slurred. I would suggest using the trill line, as that's the modern approach.

If you're writing a trill line, but there's no trill in playback, my first thought is that your score may be using a custom House Style for e.g. VSL or EastWest? In which case the Dictionary may have been edited so that no trill is performed, but there's just a +trill sound ID change. Importing one of Sibelius's built-in House Styles would resolve that.

You could also just explicitly write out the notes of the trill, with a slur on top. This is if you want the repetition speed to be exact, or in case the interval isn't obvious. It takes up more space in the score, but it's perfectly acceptable if it supports the music.

From NotePerformer's perspective, the choice of notation doesn't matter.
 
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Wallander

Wallander

Active Member
Aaaah I see! hoping for both to be updated in future with the respected features that they're missing!

I'm curious to see if NP could be integrated into DAWs which have notation editors built in, in future too. REAPER / Logic / Cubase / Cakewalk all have notation implementation but obviously isn't the primary focus of inputting MIDI notation. Would be interesting to see if it could be a feature of NP being able to be used in future by these DAWs!
It's not obvious how NotePerformer could be integrated into a DAW, unfortunately.

In a notation software the timing and length of notes is predictable, and so is the timing of key switches and articulations. This isn't the case when the MIDI and switches are entered by hand, so articulation determination wouldn't be as stable.

A plain sample library is also more manageable for the user, because you have a limited number of articulations to choose from. Things quickly become more complex when you have five or even ten different MIDI controllers which all control different aspects of the sound which may be used in combination. I.e. one CC controller for setting accent or marcato, another for vibrato amount, one for staccato or staccatissimo, one for slurs, one for mutes, one for general articulation, etc.

The fact that NotePerformer is being used in a notation software, where we take responsibility for handling these switches, is what makes NotePerformer manageable and convenient to use. I don't think it would be as much fun doing the same process by hand in a DAW, where you may have to spend ten times as much time achieving the same thing.

If NotePerformer's library of sounds were ever adapted for DAW use, my gut feeling says that virtual instrument would have to operate very differently from NotePerformer in a notation software.
 

Dave Connor

Senior Member
Both a trill line (tr~~~) and a simple "tr" symbol should do it.
Using the Trill in the Line menu works great. It may then be further edited in the Properties menu (major or minor trill) in Sibelius 6 - for those interested. I tried it on the violins and it did sound slurred but perhaps not as you say. Happy to have solved this and thank you for your great invention!
 

dcoscina

Senior Member
Just have to give another shout out to Arne for creating this godsend for anyone working in notation programs. The playback and sound quality is infinitely better than any built-in library available. I think the future of virtual orchestra expression/realism lies on this path. My 2 cents.
 
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