What's new

No more dongles!

pixel

Senior Member
Maybe they're coming up with a soft licensing system where you can activate a single license on up to three DAWs at a time -- full price for the first activation, and a nominal fee for additional activations. Internet access would only be required during the activation/deactivation process, but not while using the software.
I hope not. Why I would have to pay any fee for something that now I have for free? I can install Cubase on 100 computers and use any of them, one at a time.
 

pixel

Senior Member
One thing that I like about eLicenser is fact that I don't need to care about deactivation on an old machine. It's a real headache right now to control all those license apps (I have 10 or more of them).
I had to make a list of every vendor and their activation system so when I'm changing PC I know which software I must deactivate and which I don't need to. It also applies to moving to a new place (and/or country). As I'm doing it once per year on average I'm bothered with knowledge of which license app is based on PC ID, motherboard ID, which on IP etc. etc.
- Waves are usually the worst in that matter as if I remember correctly, their license app went crazy when I simply changed the internet provider or something as silly as that. Now I'm waiting for activation of new internet access and I'm keeping their plugins in the cloud in case if Waves Center will go mad again after I switch from the current 4G. This is ridiculous. I/we shouldn't be treated this way.
- Recently I lost 1 activation slot for my Best Service libraries because I changed settings in BIOS!
- I also have memories of clunky Native Access (like waiting forever to open or download a forced update, crashes during installation etc.) - it took a while before they managed to make it stable. Now it's fine but I'm expecting a similar thing with Steinberg, that it will take time before their license app will work properly. I can't wait to participate in the public alpha release hidden under the 'official 1.0 version'.
- Roland Cloud? This is an abomination. I'm glad that I read about it before I gave them my money which they don't deserve to get for such horrible customers treatment.
- Acustica Audio: their Aquarius app is a joke. Deactivation is on the updates page :emoji_confounded: I just lost 1 activation slot because I was stupid enough to believe that such an option should be on the owned products page.

So far Plugin Alliance is doing well. I can unregister anything I want on their website. No need to worry about a broken or stolen PC, about forgetting to deactivate in on an old PC or after major OS failure.
Arturia is the same.
I hope Steinberg will follow PA/Arturia activation system, not Roland Cloud or Waves.
 

homie

Member
My original dongle wouldn't be missing a license. It would still have the old license on it. The old license would be invalidated by Steinberg, but the invalidation process would not reach the old dongle since the old dongle would remain offline.

The only problem I'd see is if I did go online and Steinberg checked the dongle without my knowledge. I might have to set up firewall rules ahead of time to prevent that from happening.
Thanks, now i got it. I think i couldn't do that, i'd probably feel like a criminal.

There is a good chance that they will offer a better solution (hopfully without having to activate/deactivate every time) now they are ditching the dongles.
 

Crossroads

Active Member
Steinberg is going subscription bruhs.

Honestly, if the price is right, and the included content is good (Cubase + Absolute + Wavelab + Dorico for example) and you can have that for say 25 euros a month, I will be fine by that. Completely fine.
 

rudi

Senior Member
- Waves are usually the worst in that matter as if I remember correctly, their license app went crazy when I simply changed the internet provider or something as silly as that. Now I'm waiting for activation of new internet access and I'm keeping their plugins in the cloud in case if Waves Center will go mad again after I switch from the current 4G. This is ridiculous. I/we shouldn't be treated this way.
I had a similar experience. About a year ago I had a new router and switched my PC from WiFi to Ethernet. Since I no longer used WiFi I thought I would simply disable the WiFi adapter on my PC.

The next time I started my DAW, I got a Waves dialog box about invalid licenses... I was really puzzled. I launched the Wave Central app, and much to my consternation all my licenses were disabled. I am pretty sure they make a mention of it somewhere, but I wasn't aware of it at the time.

In panic I did a re-installation, which worked, but is only allowed on a limited basis (the reasons for which I fully understand).

The next time I alter or disable my system hardware I'll transfer the licenses back to the Waves cloud, make the changes and transfer back the licenses to my PC. Since then I haven't had any problem, but it was a scary moment for me.

The irony is that I'd much prefer the iLok system I understand they used to use. I like having my licenses in one place, and being able to simply plug the USB key into my system. No faffing around with re-authorisations, challenges, login to websites to de-activate / re-activate licenses.
 
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dzilizzi

Senior Member
One thing that I like about eLicenser is fact that I don't need to care about deactivation on an old machine. It's a real headache right now to control all those license apps (I have 10 or more of them).
I had to make a list of every vendor and their activation system so when I'm changing PC I know which software I must deactivate and which I don't need to. It also applies to moving to a new place (and/or country). As I'm doing it once per year on average I'm bothered with knowledge of which license app is based on PC ID, motherboard ID, which on IP etc. etc.
- Waves are usually the worst in that matter as if I remember correctly, their license app went crazy when I simply changed the internet provider or something as silly as that. Now I'm waiting for activation of new internet access and I'm keeping their plugins in the cloud in case if Waves Center will go mad again after I switch from the current 4G. This is ridiculous. I/we shouldn't be treated this way.
- Recently I lost 1 activation slot for my Best Service libraries because I changed settings in BIOS!
- I also have memories of clunky Native Access (like waiting forever to open or download a forced update, crashes during installation etc.) - it took a while before they managed to make it stable. Now it's fine but I'm expecting a similar thing with Steinberg, that it will take time before their license app will work properly. I can't wait to participate in the public alpha release hidden under the 'official 1.0 version'.
- Roland Cloud? This is an abomination. I'm glad that I read about it before I gave them my money which they don't deserve to get for such horrible customers treatment.
- Acustica Audio: their Aquarius app is a joke. Deactivation is on the updates page :emoji_confounded: I just lost 1 activation slot because I was stupid enough to believe that such an option should be on the owned products page.

So far Plugin Alliance is doing well. I can unregister anything I want on their website. No need to worry about a broken or stolen PC, about forgetting to deactivate in on an old PC or after major OS failure.
Arturia is the same.
I hope Steinberg will follow PA/Arturia activation system, not Roland Cloud or Waves.
You do know you can activate Waves to a USB flash drive, right? Also if you have WUP active, they will reset your activation once with minimal questions - as in my USB flash drive is suddenly read only and my licenses don't work. I just emailed them and they did it.

I do love Toontrack and PA for letting me control activations from the Product manager. Makes it easy to switch to a new computer.
 

Polkasound

Senior Member
I hope not. Why I would have to pay any fee for something that now I have for free? I can install Cubase on 100 computers and use any of them, one at a time.
Yes, that's the advantage of a dongle. But now let's say Steinberg allows soft licensing on up to three DAWs at a time. Joe Schmo and two of his friends will each chip in $200 to buy a single license for Cubase, which they will use on their individual DAWs.

If they're even more creative, Joe and five of his friends will each chip in $100 to buy one Cubase license. Three of them will install Cubase on their individual DAWs. Joe will report the DAWS damaged, so Steinberg will decommission the license and issue a new license which the other three will then use to run Cubase on their DAWS. So now you have six individuals using a single purchase of Cubase.

Such a plan may seem like convoluted madness to you and me, but to six teenagers making minimum wage, its sheer brilliance. (Of course there's always the disadvantage of not being able to perform updates with the old licenses.)

For this reason, I would not be averse to Steinberg charging a fee for each additional deactivation/activation service rendered.

Thanks, now i got it. I think i couldn't do that, i'd probably feel like a criminal.
I understand, but the old dongle would remain 100% in your possession. All you'd be doing is making it more convenient for you, and only you, to use your legally purchased, licensed copy of Cubase on two DAWs you own.
 

pixel

Senior Member
You do know you can activate Waves to a USB flash drive, right? Also if you have WUP active, they will reset your activation once with minimal questions - as in my USB flash drive is suddenly read only and my licenses don't work. I just emailed them and they did it.

I do love Toontrack and PA for letting me control activations from the Product manager. Makes it easy to switch to a new computer.
Of course, I know and I did it. Twice. In both cases, lovely Windows assigned a different ID to the same USB Pendrive after it was unplugged and plugged back to the same port so in the first case I had to recover licenses (Waves Center saw Pendrive as inactive), then in the second case a few days later it happened again and I couldn't reactivate licenses because I would have to pay for such amazing option (only 1 reactivation per year). I had to wait 1 year to use again plugins that I paid for.
So, no I will never ever try it again and for the same reason, I'll never buy the Waves plugin. Their anti-consumer behavior is unacceptable. Also, I found better alternatives in a meantime so maybe I should be thankful :emoji_grin:
 

dzilizzi

Senior Member
Of course, I know and I did it. Twice. In both cases, lovely Windows assigned a different ID to the same USB Pendrive after it was unplugged and plugged back to the same port so in the first case I had to recover licenses (Waves Center saw Pendrive as inactive), then in the second case a few days later it happened again and I couldn't reactivate licenses because I would have to pay for such amazing option (only 1 reactivation per year). I had to wait 1 year to use again plugins that I paid for.
So, no I will never ever try it again and for the same reason, I'll never buy the Waves plugin. Their anti-consumer behavior is unacceptable. Also, I found better alternatives in a meantime so maybe I should be thankful :emoji_grin:
Ah, sorry that happened to you. I just have a little Cruzer drive. 1st one worked for about 5 years before I got the error messages. The second is still going strong over three years later. I leave them plugged into a hub that has my iLok, elicenser and codemeter. So all my dongles on a 4 port hub. I just move the hub between computers. been working really well for me.
 

DCPImages

Member
I understand and accept that companies need to safeguard their IP against piracy, but when they end up punishing loyal fee-paying customers with lockouts and cumbersome systems they are dumped. Simple as that.
 

Snoobydoobydoo

Active Member
I understand and accept that companies need to safeguard their IP against piracy, but when they end up punishing loyal fee-paying customers with lockouts and cumbersome systems they are dumped. Simple as that.
Who cares if 5312 Russians and their uncles use a cracked Cubase?
They wouldnt have bought it anyway.

When does it become cumbersome, i ask myself. I remember that
it happened to me too some years ago that something didnt like
that i disabled my LAN Adapter....i think it was Cubase.
As long as the system itself does not suffer in performance,
makes you doing unwanted additional clicks before you
can even start, or getting too related to individual hardware
configurations, its becoming a burden.

iLok would be my first choice, but...i wont have a problem with a
systembound one-time online Activation.
For the NI Stuff i have, some Synapse Softsynths and AD2 (where
you can just disable your activated System on their Website), its
not a problem because when my system would crash and it was not
possible deactivating everything first, i could just make a whole
HDD Image anytime and reload that in no time.

But a monthly onlinecheck or refresh at a date,
that i cant control myself (and yea, many are control-freaks too),
would be a bullet to the head to Cubase for me. Just wanted to
buy a new Workstation, but that has to wait now until Steinberg
will decide if i switch to Mac or not, im not even mad.
 

Snoobydoobydoo

Active Member
Maybe, but nothing will hinder them from "sharing" with their ensnared Western brethren.
As long as you teach your western children not to take from strangers...

I wouldnt recommend using pirated software just for the reasons
of it carrying potentional risky stuff, and that your mindset changes
into seeing software generally as worthless because its available for "free".

If someone just cant afford it or its not available to him and has no
other options, or for educational purposes, who will judge...
Never liked the attitude of those that start a housefire when someone
states he is using pirated stuff for another reason than to show
off that he is smarter by investing nothing.

If developers show that kind of questionable attitude,
you can almost guess what will happen to customers
sooner or later.
 
OP
R

ReleaseCandidate

Senior Member
Thread starter
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If someone just cant afford it or its not available to him and has no
other options, or for educational purposes, who will judge...
That's actually how 'bigger' (already having many users) software grew in the past: just look at Windows and Photoshop. Better someone uses your cracked software than (s)he pays for the competition. People don't like to learn new software, so get them to use yours as early and often as possible (getting schools and universities to use your software is the jackpot). But you have to be 'big enough' to use that strategy, at least somebody (companies at best, they're willing to pay more) has to pay for your software too.
 

Snoobydoobydoo

Active Member
That's actually how 'bigger' (already having many users) software grew in the past: just look at Windows and Photoshop. Better someone uses your cracked software than (s)he pays for the competition. People don't like to learn new software, so get them to use yours as early and often as possible (getting schools and universities to use your software is the jackpot). But you have to be 'big enough' to use that strategy, at least somebody (companies at best, they're willing to pay more) has to pay for your software too.
Not much doubt about it. Thats why Windows seems currently so semi-free
(it almost kindly asks you to activate ...maybe...someday) for private use and on the opposite
is Adobe targeted at people with or at a job, or Youtubers that only need an After Effects Intro.

Its not that ...long ago when i had to phone Microsoft to activate Windows and state to that ladies
with strong accents that i use my copy of windows on only one machine, because i had used all
my activation limits (from reinstalling Win too many times).
When i was using Corel Painter, i also had reached my activation limit once. Had to phone them,
and opposed to the lifeless sounding microsoft ladies, the one from Corel was truly draconic and
neglected to reset my activation limits. I had luck that i was active in a forum where a dev was
present, so he easily reset it. Would that work with Steinberg? They even never activated my
Account there...
From those rare cases comes my fear of too strong copy protection..

Good alternatives to the Industry Standards names are there for serious work, i mean if i want to use a Photoshop alternative, the shortcuts are almost always the same there, because people are used to it and feel home instantly. I have made myself comfortable with those since Photoshop 5.0 and start to cut wrists when somebody mentions Gimp . Fully understandable that the older you get with your early adapted comfort, the harder it is to dislearn that.
I feel its not so bad with DAW's.
 

Dietz

Space Explorer
If someone just cant afford it or its not available to him and has no
other options, or for educational purposes, who will judge...
Apart from the debatable POV in general: Isn't it a bit cynical to measure multi-billion, globally tax-optimizing companies like Apple or Microsoft against comparably small entities in niche-markets that have a strong personal ethos towards their products, like most audio software manufacturers ...?
 

3DC

Active Member
In the age of unlimited online spying and tracking I find this software protection systems very funny. Lets just pretend they don't know who's using their software and on how many machines. :laugh:
Not to mention the fear of using pirated version on professional work. Of course there are always some idiots doing just that but 90% of us use official licence.

I like Image Line system with fully working FL Studio demo and no time limit. They are fully aware of "workarounds" for this demo but they don't panic. Its actually funny to see their friendly reminder on some artists YT channel. And it works, people eventually do buy these licences. Their whole business model is revolved around getting a licence for FL Studio.

On the other hand those old enough remember shareware licences and "crack" provided from publisher itself. It was a public secret. Anything for publicity and to get the sales going. :roflmao:

I think the dongle business did more harm to Stainberg and Cubase then any good. I bought FL Studio All Plugins Edition instead of Cubase. Not because it was better DAW but because I could download it and test it thoroughly without the need of a dongle. Who in the right mind demands a dongle to test a demo software?! :eek:

My 5 cents...
 
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