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Night on Bald Mountain with VIs

Discussion in 'Member's Compositions' started by Fastel, Sep 9, 2017.

  1. Fastel

    Fastel Member

    6
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    Aug 22, 2017
    Hi everyone,
    I tryed to make an existing orchestral piece sound as real as I can with my Libary. That is the state so far. What do you think about this "comes close to feel real" ambition ?
    Where is the work that still has to be done? :)

    (new Version in post #14 )


    Greetings
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017 at 1:04 PM
  2. Kubler

    Kubler Active Member

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    Jan 6, 2016
    France
    This is really nicely done. The "close to real" ambition is sometimes challenged by the repeated staccatos/marcatos or the flute runs, but the rest of the programmation is definitively some serious work.

    If anything, I would suggest to automate a bit the general reverb. It pleasantly glue together the calm/medium passages but when it comes to more turbulent excerpts, it tends to confuse my ears. I don't know what the others think of that.

    Also, that ending was quite unexpected but I guess the piece will continue after this :P

    Very good work !
     
  3. NoamL

    NoamL Senior Member

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    Jul 6, 2015
    This is really good work. Welcome to VI-C by the way.

    I agree with @Kubler. The repeated staccatos at 0:15 and 0:55 need to be reworked. However, throughout the rest of the piece you have good musicality and good balance between the instruments!

    The overall reverb level is too wet, and the tail of your reverb is too long. I'd look for a reverb that was dense and short, and use a little less of it. Your performance is very musical, so give us more of the direct sound! It may become easier to hear anything else that needs to be fixed.

    Very interested to learn what libraries you used here. I'm guessing it's all Spitfire?
     
    AlexanderSchiborr and Kubler like this.
  4. Kubler

    Kubler Active Member

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    Jan 6, 2016
    France
    +1
     
  5. thereus

    thereus Senior Member

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    Jan 18, 2017
  6. thereus

    thereus Senior Member

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    Jan 18, 2017
    What libraries are you using?
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Fastel

    Fastel Member

    6
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    Aug 22, 2017
    Hi and thanks a lot for the answers.

    I'm using only the Special Edition Vol 1 from Vienna Instruments. I've watched a lot of online tutorials but never have seen anyone who was working with this. So I ran out of ideas especially for repetitions and trills (who are not sampled with VI SE1). I had a lot of detailed work on that parts but... maybe I should upgrade. For the room (I hate it to edit depth and reverb - its frustrating :D ) I used a Lexicon Reverb / Hall ... but I'm interested in Vienna MirX which looks like a "one click" solution...

    Thanks for listening :)
     
    Paul T McGraw likes this.
  8. AlexanderSchiborr

    AlexanderSchiborr Senior Member

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    May 1, 2014
    Hey Fastel,

    Cool work from a very cool piece (which is btw also still on my list). Anyways what Noam already pointed out and he nails it. Your reverb + Tail is a bit too much, make it a bit drier. I am pretty sure that this will benefit a lot because you have a lot of good details in your rendition which will better come out by a bit reduced reverberation. Other than that what I general recommend is to work with a good reference track for a/b comparison.
    Apart from all this tech talk:
    What did you learn from the orchestration and composition in this piece? Just interested.
     
  9. ctsai89

    ctsai89 Poem of Ecstasy

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    Oct 4, 2016
    in my experimentation and experience with midi orchestration is that reverb should not last more than 3 seconds. For a reference, I have Chris Hein's brass in my template as the only dry instruments. I bus them and put space designer with the values Dry = -2 and wet = -10. 1.9 sec I also have it on LP at -6dbs. That pretty much matches the tree mic of my spitfire stuff.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Fastel

    Fastel Member

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    Aug 22, 2017
    Ok I will look at this when I'm back home in some days. I think i used a tail not more than 2.2 sec but maybe its to much wet signal. has anyone experience with the Reverb Products from ViennaSL? MirPro, MirX, and so on... ? They have a verry nice discount these days...
     
  11. camelot

    camelot Senior Member

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    Jul 31, 2016
    I have some MirX and they make the dry samples of VSL sound gorgeous, especially the woodwinds which I use solely with the Teldex MirX in my template and love it. I also used Konzertsaal Großer Saal for more realistic concert sound and its excellent. However, keep in mind that Mir and MirX are both quite CPU heavy when you use lots of instances or instruments. I also have the Mozartsaal which I used less often as I did not found the proper occasion. MirX is quite cheap and simple to use. I comes with special settings for each Instrument from VSL but can be used only in their sample player, means only with their samples. MirX will be a valuable addition to your special edition.
     
  12. TimCox

    TimCox Senior Member

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    Oct 14, 2013
    I think overall it's great! The wetness of it is actually making it sound less realistic, IMHO. I think the reverb itself is nice but there's not enough definition in the instruments
     
  13. Paul T McGraw

    Paul T McGraw Senior Member

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    Feb 14, 2012
    Very nice work! Especially since you only have the special edition 1! I own all of the VSL insltruments in full vlersions, and it makes a BIG difference. But, it is horribly expensive, as you know.

    I agree that you could back off a bit on the reverb, but it is a very nice sounding reverb, so personally it is OK with me the way it is. I have many CD's in my collection that were made from 1970's era recordings (you know, the ADD CD's) and it is interesting that classical recordings had more reverb in the 1970's and 1980's than they do today. It is really just a matter of taste.

    If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion, it would be to make your next purchase the Vienna Instruments Pro player. It adds a number of features including amazingly cool humanization features to the standard Vienna Instruments player. With VI Pro you can humanize both timing and pitch, to any degree you wish. Using VI Pro will for sure immediately improve your realism.

    I also own both MIRx and MIR Pro. MIR Pro is fun to use, but you get excellent results with MIRx for something like 1/3 the cost. It would probably be a better investment to get MIRx then gradually add full libraries for some of your most used instruments. You get credit for every penny of your investment in the Special Edition so there is no waste.

    Thank you so much for posting this. I love classical music, and I love hearing folks using VI's to learn from and enjoy classical music.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    Fastel

    Fastel Member

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    Aug 22, 2017
    Hey there,
    I worked a little bit on the repetitions but its... pain in the .... its a pain :D

    And I made the sound a bit more dry. What do you think. Is it final?


     
  15. Kubler

    Kubler Active Member

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    Jan 6, 2016
    France
    Yeah the repetitions are still a bit "machinegun-like", but meh, this is not that a problem.

    The reverb amount is way better though. I don't really know what I could suggest more. Sounds good to me :)
     

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