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Vienna Organ Player - Great Rieger Organ

@Ben Why is the Reiger Organ [VST3] consuming about 10% CPU when it's idle in Studio One (dropout protection is set at 2048)? This seems exsessive to me. See screen shot.
Have you enabled the swells? These are a little more CPU intense as they simulate the effect of a real swell as close as possible.
 
Hi,

I own the Great Rieger Organ Sampleset for a few days now and are super happy with the interface and the sound.
Some things caught my attention:
The original Rieger organ is different. It has 5 manuals + pedal, this version here skips one manual and has some of the stops from the missing "Fernwerk" in the Solo.The Fernwerk also has 2 pedal stops.

- the Glockenspiel from the Positiv is missing (ok, not really an organ stop, but why not include it for some carillon style organ music?).
- the Tuba mirabilis, Ophicleide and Clairon harmonique in the Solo are actually part of the missing Fernwerk according to Wikipedia and Rieger Company sources. (?)
- in the original Rieger organ there are 3 more pedal stops: Vox Humana 8, Fagott 16 and Bassethorn 8.
- from the Fernwerk these 11 stops are missing: Zartgedackt 16. Hornprinzipal 8, Lieblich Gedackt 8, Rohrflöte 8, Viola d'amore 8, Vox angelica 8, Gemshorn 4, Traversflöte 4, Piccolo 2, Mixtur 2 2/3, Schalmei 8.
- from the Fernwerk Pedal these 2 stops are missing: Subbass 16, Oktave 8.
However: Rieger Organ: 116 stops, VSL: 99 stops.

- the octave couplers are missing as well as a General Crescendo or Crescendo Walze.

- the Vox coelestis is originally meant to be a "chorus effect" register. This stop is usually slightly detuned (as a whole) so in combination with a similar sounding regular stop (here obviously the Aeoline) the chorus effect is produced. But HERE the Vox coelestis is not detuned at all, I had to tune her up 10 cent to get it working. Maybe someone in the developer team was really working hard with the "detuned" stop... ;)

- historic tunings are missing totally. A lot of other organ libraries have these options.


So here are my wishes for a major update:

- add the missing Fernwerk and all missing stops and the Glockenspiel, thus 116 instead of 99 stops.
- change tuning of the Vox coelestis.
- add choice of historic tunings, along with self customizable tunings.
- add the octave couplers.
- make the window free scalable, not only 5 values.
- add a custumizable "Crescendo Walze": Kind of a "playlist" of a chosen order of stops, assigned to a midi controller so the increasing or decreasing number of activated stops can be controlled e.g. by a foot controller.

I may sound a bit picky, but given the advertising slogan "biggest organ of Austria" the product should deliver all the goods.
Also, I am teachiing organ studies and this software could enable me to show so many things, that's why I want the tunings...


Anyway, it's a really good sample library.
 
[...] it's a really good sample library.
Hi Michael72,
Great posting! :emoji_thumbsup: You are obviously quite an accomplished organ player, so it's nice to see this kind of enthusiasm met with thoughtful criticism.

As the guy who came up with the idea for VSL's Great Rieger Organ and recorded (and partially edited) the original samples, I think I am in the position to comment on some of the points you raise. 8-)

- add the missing Fernwerk and all missing stops and the Glockenspiel, thus 116 instead of 99 stops.
I don't know if you understand German, but the "Fernwerk" has its name because its position is "fern", which translates as "far away". ;-D ... Technically, this means that these registers in the back of the uppermost audience balcony were barely picked up by the microphones we used: They were so drowned out by the natural background noise of the hall that it was not even possible to tell from the waveform whether a flute was playing or not.

But that was not all: In addition, several of registers - especially from the "Fernwerk" registers - were mechanically so broken (or at least so "dirty") that a meaningful representation in a virtual instrument was not conceivable.

... in short: Can't and won't happen any time soon.

- change tuning of the Vox coelestis.
While this may be a commonplace for the most experienced organists, it would scare the heck out of casual players ;-D ... it would also diminish the usefulness of this register on its own.

The good news is that you can always adjust the degree of detuning to your own liking by means of a fixed pitch-bend offset. But agree that a dedicated tuning feature like we had in Vienna Instruments Pro would be preferable.

- add choice of historic tunings, along with self customizable tunings.
See above. The option to import other tuning systems than well-tempered like we had in VI Pro would be an interesting addition indeed.

- add the octave couplers.
[...]
- add a custumizable "Crescendo Walze":
... please see Ben's reply above.

- make the window free scalable, not only 5 values.
Well - why not? :) Please drop a line with this feature request to [email protected].

Enjoy your Great Rieger Organ!
 
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Hallo Dietz, ja, ich kann Deutsch, bin Pfälzer.... aber dem Forum zuliebe bleibe ich jetzt wieder bei Englisch ;)


Thanks Ben and Dietz for your replies.

Yes, I studied organ so some of my arguments might be "organ-player nerdy".

As for the Vox coelestis, I understand your philosopy. And it's not difficult to manage the detuning.

As for the octave couplers, thanks for the hint. I overlooked this because it is at a location I wouldn't expect. This fulfils half my wish, because it seems to be an "overall-coupler", meaning it affects the whole combinantion (all manuals at the same time, same degree). It would be great if this could be selectable independently for each manual, so for example the Positiv gets the +1 coupling but the other manuals don't. This could be easily done by adding the +1/-1 switches to each of the 4 manual coupler switches in the top header.

As for "Fernworking", since I never saw the organ in person I don't know if the Fernwerk is just a Werk at a very high position in the organ case (then a bit longer mike stand extension would have done the job... :) or a separate organ case placed somewhere else in the hall, maybe at opposite end or above the ceiling (this is how I expected it from the name, thus enabling great spheric 3d audio experiences, in my dreams this Fernwerk would have been enabled to use a separate IR model...). But anyway, if the situation was that most of the registers weren't usable due to organ maintenance, then you're rehabilitated. :)
It simply would have been so nice to have EVEN THAT, EVEN MORE stops. These organists.... but even some guitar players aren't happy with just 6 strings....

As for the alternate tuning systems, I am awaiting the update... sometime. :)

As for the GUI resizing wish, I'll contact support as you mentioned.

Thanks again
Michael
 
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Started to demo this organ and am I absolutely blown away. Best organ I have ever heard. Once again just in awe of the sound of this organ and the player too. VSL is just knocking home run after home rune with the Synchron Series!!! I am absolutely going to get this organ at some point.
 
As for "Fernworking", since I never saw the organ in person I don't know if the Fernwerk is just a Werk at a very high position in the organ case (then a bit longer mike stand extension would have done the job... :) or a separate organ case placed somewhere else in the hall, maybe at opposite end or above the ceiling (this is how I expected it from the name, thus enabling great spheric 3d audio experiences, in my dreams this Fernwerk would have been enabled to use a separate IR model...).

1641291280358.png

But anyway, if the situation was that most of the registers weren't usable due to organ maintenance, then you're rehabilitated. :)
*whew* ... I'm relieved. :emoji_sweat_smile:
 
Hallo Dietz, ja, ich kann Deutsch, bin Pfälzer.... aber dem Forum zuliebe bleibe ich jetzt wieder bei Englisch ;)
Gruß in die Pfalz von etwas weiter südlich. ;)

Yes, I studied organ so some of my arguments might be "organ-player nerdy".
:)
I made the experience that some of the best and most helpful comments in this forum come from the people who really know the real instrument well. Where people like me who only have self-educated knowledge can only be happy to learn from these experts.

It simply would have been so nice to have EVEN THAT, EVEN MORE stops. These organists.... but even some guitar players aren't happy with just 6 strings....

Oh yes, I would be VERY happy if VSL would sample the organ of St. Stephan in Passau. 5 Manuals, 330 ranks, 230 stops. ;) As I woluld be happy to see a 9-string-guitar sampled. :grin:

But until that the Great Rieger Organ is the biggest organ sampled to a regular VST use (without specialized software like Hauptwerk).
I have many others that were announced as "big" or "bombastic" and then you realize they have mostly 20-40 stops (even without a single 32" pipe). Which is in my experience the average size in normal churches, at least here where I live. Nothing special.
 
Hi,
me again.

Really loving this library!

One more thing I noticed:
In the Positiv, the Seaquialter and the Progressio harmonica should be different sounding stops. But they really sound the same, I checked note by note, EXCEPT for the lowest g; here I hear one more pipe sounding in the Progressio which is likely correct but there really should be a significant difference over the whole keyboard range since the Sesquialter is 2 sounding pipes per key, tuned to a fifth and a third above it (this makes for the name of the stop since the resulting interval is a "higher sixth" or Latin/Italian "Sesquialtera". This stop is correct.

The Progressio has more pipes sounding per key: 3, 4 and 5 pipes spread in a way that at the lower end of the keyboard there are 3 pipes sounding. If you go higer (maybe to the next octave), at some point one more pipe joins, then somewhere the fifth (usually from the middle c on) and then towards the end less pipes again (since this is no organ for dogs and bats). The "V" after the stop name indicates this (five times) and even more the full name "3-5f", meaning "drei- bis fünffach", meaning 3 up to 5 pipes. (The Sesquialtera says correctely "2f" meaning "zweifach" meaning two pipes.

In short, the Progressio should sound fuller and more towards the "Mixtur" which follows the same idea.

I watched the "Tour of stops" video by Paul Fey and when he comes to this stop, he plays the Progressio alone for demonstration before combining it with the proper suitable ground stops. He does not play the Sesquialter alone, but immediately combines it also with necessary ground stops. Thus, on the video, the "non-difference" cannot be noticed.

Again: Really loving this library!

Michael
 
  1. I would like to know if Konzerthaus Organ also has dry preset so it can be used with additional reverbs.
  2. How dry is Rieger (also Konzerthaus if there is such option) if original samples were used: direct sound only, direct + ERs, direct + ERs + some tail? Well, maybe ERs are subtle in larger hall and don't change the sound much.
  3. Do both have preset with natural only reverb of the hall too?
 
Both virtual representations of the Rieger organ of the Vienna Konzerthaus offer the possibility to turn off both the natural reverb tails and all artificial reverberations (be it algorithmic or IR-based). There are no selectable microphone options.

The Synchron Rieger organ is based on the same sample database as the legacy Vienna Konzerthaus Organ, but has been enhanced with a much lauded, highly optimized interface and a very capable engine with lots of fine-tuned mixer-settings and of course registration presets.

I think there are demo-versions available, and if there ain't, you can always return the instrument within 30 days, IIRC. ... I guess you won't. ;-D
 
Thank you. It's good to know they both can be dry but also with natural reverb. One mic position is not problem here since this is VI/Sync'ed kind of a library (now I wonder how many samples would be needed for single stops with multiple recording position). If there are sampled release tails like in the legacy one from old Kontakt Factory Library, I'm good.
I don't have iLok so there is no demo. I appreciate you started to offer trial period with some of the new products during sales without it though.
 
I thought that's only for some of the products like MIR because there is option for that when I log in but not for the organ. Will check out FAQ.
 
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