Native Instruments Symphony Essentials worth it?

[Voider]

Hey there! This library very got only little attention here so I decided to ask you how you feel about it. I'm talking about the smaller essentials version:

https://www.native-instruments.com/de/products/komplete/cinematic/symphony-essentials-collection/

Is it worth the money? For 399€ it comes with all basic instruments, even solo versions of brass and woodwinds if I see that right and percussion.

Unfortunately I don't own any previous Komplete version so that a crossgrade would be very nice priced now. :(

What do you think about it? Do you like the sound or not, is the essentials version enough to get started? I own Kontakt 5 full and have got the VSL orchestra in there, though I am not sure if it's a bit too dated to layer it with this one.

Unfortunately NI did remove the demo versions for those for some reason.

Click to read more...

 

[aaronventure]

If you want to get started and later get other orchestral libraries, you can safely delete the Symphony Essentials (except maybe percussion) because you won't be using it anymore.

They're just not very good libraries. They're pretty limited in their content and playability.

If that's your budget, you can get Hollywood Orchestra Gold for $500. That's definitely more than enough for a start, and even though it's missing some things modern libraries have, it's still holding up well. Especially the strings. It's a pretty damn good deal for that price.

You can subscribe to Composer Cloud for one month for $30 and use any and all EW libraries in that period and see how you like them. If you want to be sure, that's also as good a deal as any.

 

[Voider]

I dislike Eastwests interface and sound, not even to mention iLok.. have tried it out already. I pretty much have all possible options for me nailed down to maybe get NI essentials or Project Sams Symphobia 1.

Can you tell more about why the NI essentials is limited in content and playability?
Personally I think, compared to Project Sam, Spitfires Albions, Cinesamples Cinesymphony Lite and all those ensemble libraries it's pretty decent to have all the solo instruments from brass and woowinds avaiable too! That's why I am curious what you mean by limited in content and playability for this price range.

Edit: I just noticed that apparently the essential versions is also covering solo string sections:

 

[fretti]

I dislike Eastwests interface and sound, not even to mention iLok..

They don't need a physical iLok anymore, the iLok license manager and an account on their website is enough nowadays.

Personally I think, compared to Project Sam, Spitfires Albions, Cinesamples Cinesymphony Lite and all those ensemble libraries it's pretty decent to have all the solo instruments from brass and woowinds avaiable too! That's why I am curious what you mean by limited in content and playability for this price range.

They (obviously) lack compared to the (full) Symphony Series in (real) legato, have less samples, have only "one mic" (= mix I think), no (auto-)divisi.
Woodwinds Essentials has 54 ensemble and 42 solo articulations and the full one has 314 ensemble and 148 solo articulations.
Brass Essentials has 73 ensemble and 80 solo articulations and the full one has 183 ensemble and 120 solo articulations.
(according to their website).

Edit: I just noticed that apparently the essential versions is also covering solo string sections:

No, only individual ensemble sections. But no solo strings at all.

Percussion is great, strings sound cool (just upgraded to the full version). Brass and Woodwinds have better options on the market imo, but that's highly subjective, and I only have the essentials from these two.
For the price it's a reasonable product, though only the Essentials and no "full version". But for 399€ it's ok I guess, as SF and Cinesamples etc. have a much higher prices for the full range (though of course the full Symphony Series cost also ~999€ I believe).
Symphobia is much older, but still very much loved around here; don't have it though, only own Project Sams Brass.

But: everything can be tweaked to sound great

 

[aaronventure]

You can always EQ the sound and add some reverb if it's too dry. Once you set up a template, you won't have to deal with PLAY that much. You can't, however, fix missing content with an EQ and a reverb, nor can you fix bad playability. Listen to the demos of the East West orchestra, you can do a lot of things with that library. Then listen to the demos of Symphony Essentials.

I'll detail my experiences.

Strings have a pretty bad legato. As you can hear in the video. It will be pretty hard to perform expressive lines because that's just not how a string ensemble would transition from note to note. There's only one type of short "bowed" articulation, and it's staccato, and it has 4 RRs. So if you're doing an ostinato, it will start to sound like a loop rather quickly.

Woodwinds and brass are exposed instruments in an orchestra because there aren't too many of them. They're wonderful, expressive instruments and these libraries are everything but. Weird legato, bad playability, not enough content to "frankenstein" the lines properly. The FX articulations like crescendos, decrescendos and sforzandos are not time-synced and you'll have to adjust the length each time. They only have one sample per note for each of these articulations, meaning you'll get the same exact performance every time you play that effect on that note. There's nothing faker than that. Ideally, a library is playable and you can play all of these in yourself, no matter what length or speed you want. The trombones, both the ensemble and the solo are very, very bad.

There's spatialization inconsistencies between the solos and ensembles. You'll need an IR reverb for the solos. And they're just single-instrument close-mic'd variations of the ensemble patch. I remember the flute having an okay legato, and the bassoon being passable, with everything else sounding just plain bad.

These were just my impressions, but I haven't heard a well done production with these libraries. I don't know where you are with your writing and what your experience exactly is, but if you're somewhere near the start and plan to write using sample libraries, they will severely limit your composition because you won't have other samples to write for, so you'll write for what these libraries do well - block chords and arpeggiated patterns. They don't even do that better than other libraries, it's just their strongest point.

I would personally never, ever recommend these half-assed products to anyone, especially with what you can get for the same price of either the Essentials or Full.

 

[Voider]

I just notice that I could instead upgrade to Komplete 11 for 199€ and then I am allowed to crossgrade to the full Symphony Series for 299€ if I read that correctly. So 500€ for K11 + the full Symphony Series Package which does actually cost 999€ by default alone. Now that maybe changes how well it's worth it? I mean for 500€, even if you ignore that K11 is part of it, there isn't that much out there on full orchestra libraries with so much modern content, is it?

Edit: @aaronventure gonna read your post soon, did overlap with mine, thanks in advance!

 

[aaronventure]

there isn't that much out there on full orchestra libraries with so much modern content, is it?

If you want to (write) produce orchestral music and have it sound good, these libraries are flawed products will not be of much use to you. If you want to put some block chord strings, ostinato patterns and FFF Horn lines in your electronic/pop productions, they'll suffice.

 

[Voider]

There's only one type of short "bowed" articulation, and it's staccato, and it has 4 RRs. So if you're doing an ostinato, it will start to sound like a loop rather quickly.

Could you make a quick example and upload it? That would be awesome if you got the time!

These were just my impressions, but I haven't heard a well done production with these libraries.

Including the official ones on the NI site? I find a lot of them quite well :o

 

[aaronventure]

Could you make a quick example and upload it? That would be awesome if you got the time!

Oh, I've long since deleted these libraries. But you can hear it at the very start of the video you posted above.

Including the official ones on the NI site? I find a lot of them quite well :o

Maybe for a "trailer music" standard. Have a listen at this channel and this playlist.

 

[Voider]

Maybe for a "trailer music" standard. Have a listen at this channel and this playlist.

What do you think about these? Not trying to argue against you, just want to discuss some of the more classic sounding demos







I am not sure if I can spot an artifical sound of the few round robins or not, there is something a bit static in it but I don't know what it is. I can't say I don't like it though, I find it pretty interesting and characteristic! But you are right, it doesn't sound that warm. A bit cold and sharp.

 

[fretti]

What do you think about these? Not trying to argue against you, just want to discuss some of the more classic sounding demos

I am not sure if I can spot an artifical sound of the few round robins or not, there is something a bit static in it but I don't know what it is. I can't say I don't like it though, I find it pretty interesting and characteristic! But you are right, it doesn't sound that warm. A bit cold and sharp.

Though these are written with the full Symphony Series and not the Essentials.
But tbh I never found the orchestral demos of NI really convincing (Action Strings etc.)...

These are written with the Essentials, might spot a difference in some points:

 

[Voider]

Though these are written with the full Symphony Series and not the Essentials.

Yes but I wrote later that I could get K11 + the full series for 499€, so that would definitely be a better deal than only essentials for 399€.

The staccato strings in "The Battle of Camlann" really do sound a bit artifical, is that really down to the few RR? How many RR are usual nowadays?

 

[fretti]

Yes but I wrote later that I could get K11 + the full series for 499€, so that would definitely be a better deal than only essentials for 399€.

The staccato strings in "The Battle of Camlann" really do sound a bit artifical, is that really down to the few RR? How many RR are usual nowadays?

Afaik:
owning the Symphony Essentials Collection, you can upgrade to the Full version.
With K11U you can crossgrade to the full version.
But with "only" K11 I think you can't do either of those, as it's not included in there...

 

[Voider]

Afaik:
owning the Symphony Essentials Collection, you can upgrade to the Full version.
With K11U you can crossgrade to the full version.
But with "only" K11 I think you can't do either of those, as it's not included in there...

Yes you can with K11. It says so on the website:

This crossgrade only works for users of KOMPLETE 2-11, KOMPLETE 8-11 ULTIMATE, SYMPHONY SERIES – BRASS, SYMPHONY SERIES – WOODWIND, SYMPHONY SERIES – STRING ENSEMBLE.

https://www.native-instruments.com/...cinematic/symphony-series-collection/pricing/

 

[aaronventure]

What do you think about these? Not trying to argue against you, just want to discuss some of the more classic sounding demos







I am not sure if I can spot an artifical sound of the few round robins or not, there is something a bit static in it but I don't know what it is. I can't say I don't like it though, I find it pretty interesting and characteristic! But you are right, it doesn't sound that warm. A bit cold and sharp.

You do you, man. Nothing wrong about liking that sound and taking it wherever you wanna take it. It just isn't an organic sound, for better or worse (in my case it's for worse).

The first and the third piece are block chords and ostinato patterns, exactly what the strong points of these libraries are. The second tries a slower melodic line, but the libraries can't handle it. It will fail even harder at faster lines or some more "broken" lines with rests and more expressive writing.

 

[JonSolo]

Just reading through... it appears you strike a defense for a product you do not yet own.

Your original questions were:

Is it worth the money?
What do you think about it?
and
Do you like the sound or not, is the essentials version enough to get started?

It appears that only a few chimed in, and I like their answers...but just to add:

Is it worth the money? Nope, not in my opinion. I got it as a part of KU10 to KU11 upgrade and played through it once, never to touch it again.

What do you think about it? I try not to. It seemed to have all the right stuff, and then it just fell apart. I love SoundIron stuff, but not this. There are so many good libraries that blow this out of the water...even starter stuff.

Do you like the sound or not, is the essentials version enough to get started? No. I do not like the sound. And the essentials/full still does not sound good. I do not use it in stacks with other instruments at all.

Now before I sound like I hate it...I don't "hate" the library. But there is nothing I like about it...so I abandoned using it. I cannot believe it is still installed...so I took it for a play to see if I could fee differently. I do not. I am sure someone could make some use of this library if they had to. But why when there is so much else out there?

If you cannot wrap your head around EWQL, then get Berlin Inspire as a starter and move to the bigger libraries. I cannot speak for ProjectSam since I do not own any of their libraries (I own most everything else). Or as stated above, do your own thing...you sound like you have convinced yourself, and as long as you are happy nothing else really matters.

We just didn't want to leave you hanging.

 

[Voider]

But why when there is so much else out there?

Because it's hard to beat imho to get so much value for 399€ only. Strings, Woodwinds and Brass with all separated ensemble sections, Brass and Woodwinds Solo libraries on top of that and a huge percussion one as well. Of course if one doesn't dig the sound, it can just cost 100€ and will be still wasted.

Or as stated above, do your own thing...you sound like you have convinced yourself, and as long as you are happy nothing else really matters.

We just didn't want to leave you hanging.

I'm not sure yet haha. Checking videos and audio demos right now, thinking about it. I would like to take the plunge, but I'm not convinced yet. I just see that K11+the full series for 500 bucks is an insane deal, but I need to find out if this orchestra is really worth it for me. Another plus might be that NI allows us to actually resell licenses, so if I really would end up not liking it I would surely find someone who would buy it from me somewhen.

Thanks for your input! There is something in that sound that I can't decide yet if I like or dislike it. But it's really really sharp and hard. It would fit perfectly into the sci-fi/hybrid stuff that I like, but probably having hard times with lush warm passages.

 

[Voider]

Another question, I will call NI tomorrow early since I live here in germany and ask them directly, but I'm curious about your personal experiences: As far as I know I am allowed to resell only the crossgrade license as long as the buyer owns one of the for the crossgrade necessary products. Does NI in any way check the pricing or is that something between me and the buyer at all?

Because if I would dislike the library and want to sell it, I don't want to make loss. If I sell it after the summer sale when it would originally cost double the price for the amount that I paid for, I could feel pretty safe that I won't make a loss. E.g. if I purchase it now for 299€ and it will cost 599€ again, it shouldn't be an issue to find a buyer for 299€. What do you think about that, does that seem realistic? xD

 

[pderbidge]

I own LASS 2, East West Hollywood Strings Gold,EWQLSO Gold, 8Dio Aggitato series, Symphony Strings Essentials (came with K11U), some solo strings from Embertone and Albion/Albion One from Spitfire.

I totally disagree with some of the over the top comments that this library is half-assed etc.. Come on really? Audiobro makes great stuff, including this one. I also disagree that it can't sound organic! Nonsense! It lacks articulations from the full version but still useful. Whether its price is competitive anymore with the explosion of newer string products that have been released since it came out is another story. Using Virtual strings is all about learning the library in and out and getting the most out of it and not expecting it to knock your socks off when you play a note. It's nice when that happens but even libraries that do that will be limited in other ways.

To answer your question about upgrading to K11, since K11 does not contain Symphony String Essentials then you can't update it to the full version since there is nothing to update from. You might be able to "crossgrade" but I didn't see that as an option on the NI website so you should contact NI first just to make sure.

Now after defending SSE from some pretty ridiculously harsh comments (sorry guys, but they were) I would say that if your main purpose is to get a good string library that can do way more arts and probably more expressive sounding then for just over $300 you could grab 8dio's Century Strings which is 40% off right now and I think is money better spent if your main goal is to get a good String Library. Also the new Chris Hein Ensemble Strings. Both of these seem to be taking Strings to another level when it comes to the ability to be more flexible with your string writing. There are many great libraries out there in the $400 price range today that makes it harder to recommend one over the other but the two I mentioned seem to offer something beyond just being another String Library. Having said that the Divisi feature of full version of Symphony Strings is one of its strong points that the essentials version won't give you and something that Audiobro is known for. It seems to be an easier way to do divisi over what LASS 2 can do. Here's hoping to LASS 3 soon In the end just learn what you end up with in and out and you'll make great music. In the $400 price range there is a lot of good stuff out there.

In regards to Symphobia, it's apples and Oranges. Symphobia contains ensembles with Brass and drums and woodwinds and choirs etc.. and won't do as detailed for strings but still sounds gorgeous.

We're spoiled for choice today but don't let anyone make you think that you can't write professional score's with Symphony Strings. There are well respected composers still using parts of EWQLSO to this day in their compositions. In the end it is still about learning the VI's you have to get the most out of them.

What I think you should consider is where do you want to start? If you're doing just trailer music and not a lot of detailed writing then jumping to Komplete 11 Ultimate is possibly a better way to go. You'll get all the Symphonic Essentials but also so much more that will help with trailers such as Damage, Evolve, some great pianos, drums, bass,Action Strikes, some great synths , and so much more.

Back to Symphony Essentials -Just for comparison sake, here is a nice little video comparing String Essentials to Spitfire Symphonic Strings. You might be surprised at how well the sound stacks up to a much more expensive Library. I love Spitfire but I do feel they are over-hyped on this forum. There was a time where saying that might have even got me banned around here- but don't let anyone make you think you have to own Spitfire to be a competitive composer. Just buy it if you like it.

 

[Voider]

To answer your question about upgrading to K11, since K11 does not contain Symphony String Essentials then you can't update it to the full version since there is nothing to update from. You might be able to "crossgrade" but I didn't see that as an option on the NI website so you should contact NI first just to make sure.

Did the link I posted above didn't work for you?
https://www.native-instruments.com/...cinematic/symphony-series-collection/pricing/

It should state it there if you choose crossgrade on the full series collection!

Now after defending SSE from some pretty ridiculously harsh comments (sorry guys, but they were) I would say that if your main purpose is to get a good string library that can do way more arts and probably more expressive sounding then for just over $300 you could grab 8dio's Century Strings which is 40% off right now and I think is money better spent if your main goal is to get a good String Library.

Well for 300€ I get not only the strings from NI, I get as well Brass, Brass Solo, Woodwinds, Woodwinds solo and Percussion! So that is a way better entry for me instead of just having one string library.

Thanks for the comparison video, gonna look into it asap

Using Virtual strings is all about learning the library in and out and getting the most out of it and not expecting it to knock your socks off when you play a note. It's nice when that happens but even libraries that do that will be limited in other ways.

Well said!