Music Theory - is there ever a point where you have everything in your composition under control?

Discussion in 'Composition, Orchestration & Technique' started by ein fisch, May 15, 2019.

  1. VinRice

    VinRice ... i am a robot ...

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    Then what the fuck are you arguing with then? The OP asks about whether learning theory is worth it. Answer = yes.
     
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  2. ism

    ism Senior Member

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    Here's how parallel 5th should be taught:



    (Notwithstanding the bit in the final chapter where he says that students should be taught why to avoid parallel 5th until after they've had the avoidance of parallel 5th beaten into them by rote)
     
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  3. robgb

    robgb I was young once

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    No. The answer is it depends on the individual. I've said that from my first post. The hostility is no more necessary than the sarcasm.
     
  4. VinRice

    VinRice ... i am a robot ...

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    That's a bullshit passive-aggressive non-answer. EVERYTHING depends on the individual. What's necessary in my posts is my decision. Are you trying to pressure me into conforming to your behavioural norms? Or perhaps trying to signal an implied moral superiority?
     
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  5. robgb

    robgb I was young once

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    Yawn.
     
  6. halfwalk

    halfwalk Member

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    You are attacking a viewpoint which is contrary to your own, by intentionally reducing it to an extreme caricature of its actual intent rather than actually engaging in meaningful dialog regarding why you might see things differently.

    I hope you recognize the irony of your accusation of signaling implied moral superiority.
     
  7. mikeh-375

    mikeh-375 old school

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    Rob with the greatest respect, some of this post above is flat out wrong and is typical of the misunderstandings and assumptions often made by some.
     
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  8. robgb

    robgb I was young once

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    I can only speak from my own experience and the experience of friends, some of whom embrace formal learning and others who don't. And I'm not strictly speaking about music theory, but all creative endeavors. The same applies to writing, for example, which is my particular profession.

    Probably a waste of time engaging. I've put him on ignore.
     
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  9. VinRice

    VinRice ... i am a robot ...

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    You are making the mistake of taking me seriously. I suspect irony is a concept you struggle with.
     
  10. VinRice

    VinRice ... i am a robot ...

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    I rest my case.
     
  11. halfwalk

    halfwalk Member

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    I think it's not a matter of how it's "supposed to be done," but rather the creation of a framework that determines whether or not something is "musical."

    If it cannot be explained by music theory, then it must not be music, right? It depends on what the individual considers to be musical, rather than what people have traditionally agreed upon. Some people hear songs in the wind, where others just hear noise.

    It's about consciousness and the perception of vibrations, arbitrarily, as "music" and how music theory can (not saying it does, but it can) instill a sense of "tunnel vision" regarding what music is and isn't.
     
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  12. Farkle

    Farkle Senior Member

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    I recommend reading this book, and then doing each of the chapter's drills, repeatedly (spend like 1-2 weeks on each one).

    Ron Gorow - Hearing and Writing Music
     
  13. VinRice

    VinRice ... i am a robot ...

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    All fun and games aside, there are two arguments here that seem to have become conflated. 'Formal' education is a whole topic unto itself that actually has nothing to do with the OP's question which was about learning. Will you become a better musician, songwriter, composer by learning theory? Unequivocally, absolutely, yes.
     
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  14. Sean

    Sean I don't know what I'm talking about

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    I really can't understand how people would think otherwise, its absolutely mind boggling
     
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  15. Parsifal666

    Parsifal666 I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.

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    Nice! And when it comes to parallel fifths, thank God for Tony Iommi!
     
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  16. ism

    ism Senior Member

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    What I think is the root conflation (and why these threads predictably degenerate in more Luvvies vs Boffins acimony) is the way that being badly taught theory can not only *not* help you become a better composer but can even do you damage as a composer (if you internalize badly conceived theory) vs the indisputable value of theory itself.

    A trivial (if slightly dramatized) example: I do actually believe theory of parallel 5ths is extremely valuable - when the underlying musical reasons and their contexts are understood. But internalizing the rule by rote is only useful you want to be a hack churning out derivative chorales of undigested Bach.
     
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  17. VinRice

    VinRice ... i am a robot ...

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    Perfect.
     
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  18. VinRice

    VinRice ... i am a robot ...

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    Ooh. What's this on my desktop? It's a video of War Pigs from 1971! Quick blast to reset my brain after watching Eurovision (26 songs all with the same 4 chords)
     
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  19. Parsifal666

    Parsifal666 I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.

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    OH yeah! Can't imagine that song without THAT solo. Iconic.
     
  20. eph221

    eph221 Member

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    No sarcasm, no condescension and no devaluation in my world.
     

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