What's new

Modulation problem in Logic Pro X - please help!

Garry

Senior Member
Hi,

I wonder if you could help: I'm getting confused with modulation in Logic (version 10.3.3): with 2 different libraries, it's implemented in 2 different ways, and I can't understand how to change it. I'll explain in detail, in case it helps diagnose the problem, and might help other newbies like me.

- With Albion One, I have the various parameters (dynamics, expression, vibrato) set up to be controlled by my midi controller (nanokontrol 2). I established the link by right clicking on the parameter, learn midi, and then moving the fader. To record the modulation, I make sure I'm in touch/latch mode. Then in order to see the modulation, I to go into main window, hit A to show modulation, select the parameter by right-clicking the volume drop-down, go to Kontakt 5-> at the bottom of a long list (>500 numbers!), I see the Albion parameters (dynamics, etc). I select this and can then see and change the modulation. However, if I go into the Piano Roll window and select the MIDI draw icon, and click the drop-down menu for Controller, I see the Albion One parameters listed under Smart Controls, but selecting them does not show any modulation.

- With SWAM instruments (eg Sample Modeling's Cello), it's the opposite: I can see the modulation (though only for Expression, no other parameters, even though I also have vibrato depth mapped to a CC, and can hear it being correctly modulated), but I cannot see any modulation in the Main window. I've mapped the controls for the Cello by using the CC Learn function in the SWAM engine, and then moving the appropriate fader. In case it makes any difference to the solution, for modulation with SWAM, I use a TEControl breath controller, for modulation of Albion, I use the nanoKontrol.

My aim is to have all of the modulation available for all instruments at least in the MIDI draw part of the Piano Roll window (as the main window gets very cluttered with when viewing the modulation) or ideally both, as the main window can be useful for seeing the modulation of 2 parameters at once, which I don't think is possible in the MIDI draw window.

Thank you for reading this - would greatly appreciate any insights. I'm sure I'm doing something stupid and obviously wrong.

Garry :)
 
M

mac

Guest
Have you made sure to switch between region and track automation to see if it's visible in one or the other?
 
OP
Garry

Garry

Senior Member
Have you made sure to switch between region and track automation to see if it's visible in one or the other?
It's different for both: for Albion, if I select Track in the Main window, I can select all the modulations, and they show as expected; if I set this to 'region' in the main window, the modulations are not visible, but in the Midi Draw part of the Piano Roll window, there is no modulation evident, no matter which parameter I select (went through all those in the drop down menu for Controller, as well as all 127 under 'other'!

For SWAM Cello still the opposite: whether I select region or track, the modulations are barely visible, faded into the background of the region, but I can't find a parameter that brings them to the foreground; in the Midi Draw Window, I can still see only expression data (not vibrato which I'm also modulating, and can hear being modulated on record and play), but nothing else. :(

Any other suggestions gratefully received :)
 

Alex Fraser

Senior Member
Sounds like you're doing battle with Logic's various methods of automation!

In order to write midi automation to Kontakt, you don't need to use the automation touch/latch on the mixer. That sort of automation (host) is mainly used for moving the channel strip faders etc.
Instead, simply hit record and start moving the controls. The data should be written as CC midi data and you'll see this data in the piano roll.

Does this work?
 
OP
Garry

Garry

Senior Member
Yes, definitely feels like battle!

Unfortunately, that doesn't work :( If I don't use touch/latch, only the midi notes are written into the piano roll, but not the modulation I've associated with various CC numbers; with touch/latch engaged, I record the modulation fine, but it just doesn't appear in the piano roll, only the main window. At least, that's true for Albion; but not for SWAM instruments! There I can record without touch/latch, and the modulation is recorded, but I can only see expression data (not vibrato) and not in the main window!

If others can record both midi and CC changes without touch/latch, there must be something wrong with my controller assignment settings (for the nanokontrol and TEControl)?
 

Alex Fraser

Senior Member
Have you installed the Korg software for Logic? Not the CC assignment software, but the extra download that makes Logic's controls work with the Nano?
I only ask, as my understanding is that it prevents standard CC data being sent to Logic..
 
OP
Garry

Garry

Senior Member
I'm not sure what you mean by Korg software for Logic? I've installed the Korg Kontrol Editor, which allows me to specify the CC number for each of the faders, knobs and buttons. This seems to be working fine, at least in that I can assign faders correctly to parameters across different libraries. But the editor isn't specific to Logic, so I'm wondering if you mean something else?
 
OP
Garry

Garry

Senior Member
SOLVED!!!! Thank you Alex, your answer led me to the solution. Hearing that others can record CC data without touch/latch meant there must be a problem with my controller assignments. In case anyone else runs into the same problem, here's the fix:

I deleted the listing for the nano in Logic (Logic/Control Surfaces/Setup), and then in the Korg Kontrol Editor, assigned faders 1 and 2 to CC1 and CC11 This youtube video also helped. Now they record CC data correctly, the modulation shows up in both Main and Midi Draw windows, and I'm a happy bunny! Thank you Alex. I found the Korg software for Logic that you were referring to also - I think I did indeed install this when I first got the unit (I don't recall), so perhaps this, in combination with the above, is the full solution.

Such an awesome forum and community here. :)
 

Alex Fraser

Senior Member
Haha, I was trying to find that very link to send you! Glad to hear it's all sorted now. Good times.
I'm thinking of picking a nano up for Logic/Albion too. How's the hardware? Any thoughts? Thanks!
 
OP
Garry

Garry

Senior Member
Well, I would say it's not going to be your favourite ever hardware purchase, but on balance I'm glad I bought it: it's small and so fits perfectly on top of the keyboard where I need it; other, bigger controllers can't just sit right on the keyboard like this and so I would think end up being at an uncomfortable arm's length reach, so I think that's a big positive. It's not going to win any design awards: as you can tell just from images, it's cheap and plastic, but that said, the stability of the faders is what matters most, and there I find them better than I was expecting. I also have the Behringer X-touch, and though it's much more expensive, and you can't assign the faders for CC control (arrgghh!), and the faders are quite flimsy in comparison to the nanokontrol, despite the latter being much cheaper. I bought it because I have the Komplete Kontrol s88, which I like, but just what were they thinking with the touch strip replacement for the mod wheel?!! It's awful! The nano is much better, and has much more functionality. I like the look of the Palette that Christian Henson reviewed recently, but he's since said he's getting drop out issues: and it would be style (Palette much better) vs function (Nano has far more assignable faders buttons for 5x less cost). Hope that helps, and thanks again for your help.
 

Alex Fraser

Senior Member
Thanks for that Garry.
Sounds like just what I need. Something small for the desk that works well. I'm getting tired of stretching for the mod wheel on my 88 key controller! Good news on faders. For £39 I'm not expecting the world, but sounds like the nano will do the job. They're obviously popular for a reason.
Thanks again!
A
 

JohnBMears

Senior Member
Well, I would say it's not going to be your favourite ever hardware purchase, but on balance I'm glad I bought it: it's small and so fits perfectly on top of the keyboard where I need it; other, bigger controllers can't just sit right on the keyboard like this and so I would think end up being at an uncomfortable arm's length reach, so I think that's a big positive. It's not going to win any design awards: as you can tell just from images, it's cheap and plastic, but that said, the stability of the faders is what matters most, and there I find them better than I was expecting. I also have the Behringer X-touch, and though it's much more expensive, and you can't assign the faders for CC control (arrgghh!), and the faders are quite flimsy in comparison to the nanokontrol, despite the latter being much cheaper. I bought it because I have the Komplete Kontrol s88, which I like, but just what were they thinking with the touch strip replacement for the mod wheel?!! It's awful! The nano is much better, and has much more functionality. I like the look of the Palette that Christian Henson reviewed recently, but he's since said he's getting drop out issues: and it would be style (Palette much better) vs function (Nano has far more assignable faders buttons for 5x less cost). Hope that helps, and thanks again for your help.
@Garry You CAN'T assign the faders on the Behringer X-touch to CC data? REALLY!? I was going to buy it for that, are you sure?
 
OP
Garry

Garry

Senior Member
@Garry You CAN'T assign the faders on the Behringer X-touch to CC data? REALLY!? I was going to buy it for that, are you sure?
Hi John, yes - that's my understanding. I looked into this a while ago (see this thread); seems like using Smart Controls might be a way with an additional script discussed here, but to be honest, I stopped going down that route, since, at least with my set up, it wasn't comfortable to have the x-touch off to one side of the keyboard, and use it for real time modulation. Post-mod might work via smart controls, but I haven't tried as that's not what I was aiming for. So, I didn't pursue this much, so could be wrong, but my recollection is that CC control can be done with the x-touch compact, but not the x-touch universal (annoying to realise this after purchase, since that means more functionality on what is a cheaper unit!). For me, the nanokontrol2 has worked out much better, because it's small enough to sit right on top of my keyboard, so is easily accessible while playing.

I think I will sell my x-touch, and try to learn the lesson of being drawn to flashy LEDs! (I won't learn that lesson of course, and make the same mistake again (which I did with the komplete kontrol s88!).
 

HeliaVox

Active Member
In the XTouch I use Shift+Instrument to get into Smart Control Mode. I have not been able to figure out how to use more than 8 fades though. Fader Bank will not flip to another set of 8 smart controls.
 
OP
Garry

Garry

Senior Member
In the XTouch I use Shift+Instrument to get into Smart Control Mode. I have not been able to figure out how to use more than 8 fades though. Fader Bank will not flip to another set of 8 smart controls.
Oh WOW HeliaVox - you have just solved a problem I have had for MONTHS! I was considering getting rid of this unit, as without the cc control, it's pretty useless to me. But I just put it into Smart Control as you indicated, and was able to use any controller (fader, knob or button) to map to it!!

Yeah!!! thanks HeliaVox!
 

HeliaVox

Active Member
Oh WOW HeliaVox - you have just solved a problem I have had for MONTHS! I was considering getting rid of this unit, as without the cc control, it's pretty useless to me. But I just put it into Smart Control as you indicated, and was able to use any controller (fader, knob or button) to map to it!!

Yeah!!! thanks HeliaVox!
You're very welcome, I'm glad I was able to help!
 
Top Bottom