Mixing Benny Oschmann - Short Flight in a Big Balloon

ricoderks

Active Member
Hi everyone!

Like most of us I'm always looking for ways to improve my template and sounds.
Also trying to get better mixes but I'm still struggling to really make the orchestra sound as a whole. It always sounds like seperate groups... can't explain it. (I know, I should probably consider hiring a real orchestra then...) However, I like to get as close as possible with new sample libraries and decided to use Benny Oschmann's awesome track for reference mixed by Dennis Sands. I tried to recreate the piece by ear so don't mind the orchestration errors... All tips are very welcome. Especially for the mix. Thanks in advance!

Rico



Libraries: Auddict Audio Master Woodwinds, Cinematic Studio Brass/Strings/Solo Strings/ True Strike.
 

tebling

New Member
No tips to offer - it sounds perfectly wonderful to my ears! I love Benny Oschmann's work as well, and I feel like you've done him justice. Well done.
 

ScarletJerry

Active Member
Wow - it sounds great! The brass part is indistinguishable from a real orchestra. Short Ride in a Big Balloon is one of my favorite scores. You should know that Benny Oschman generously published the full score of this piece for free, along with others, and you can download them here.

-Scarlet Jerry
 

BenG

Senior Member
As someone who has listened to the original version many, many times and love all of Benny's work...You did a FANTASTIC job! Really well done and it is amazing what you were able to accomplish.

Only comments I could possibly make are;

1. The string legato figures at 1:05 are not as smooth, though the original version is simply not possible with samples anyway.

2. Your violins melody at :13 is very good but I feel it could be thinned our a bit compared to the original. Not by much, but it is missing that effortless airyness the recording has.

Again, these are minor comments and coming from someone that knows this recording inside an out. So, bravo to you and would love to hear more of your stuff!
 
OP
ricoderks

ricoderks

Active Member
Wow - it sounds great! The brass part is indistinguishable from a real orchestra. Short Ride in a Big Balloon is one of my favorite scores. You should know that Benny Oschman generously published the full score of this piece for free, along with others, and you can download them here.

-Scarlet Jerry
Yes I was aware of that! I actually already printed them waaaayyy back. But i thought it would be a better training to try it by ear. :)


As someone who has listened to the original version many, many times and love all of Benny's work...You did a FANTASTIC job! Really well done and it is amazing what you were able to accomplish.

Only comments I could possibly make are;

1. The string legato figures at 1:05 are not as smooth, though the original version is simply not possible with samples anyway.

2. Your violins melody at :13 is very good but I feel it could be thinned our a bit compared to the original. Not by much, but it is missing that effortless airyness the recording has.

Again, these are minor comments and coming from someone that knows this recording inside an out. So, bravo to you and would love to hear more of your stuff!
Thanks Ben! Yes 1.05 is a bit hard to do but it's still work in progress
I'm also agreeing on your second tip. The balance of the orchestra is way different right now but i could not find the time to finish this piece yet with the new mixing approach in mind... Long story short: I use less main mic (or more close) to give the strings more definition. Sounds way cooler and like the recording of soundtracks in my opinion. I also did something like that with the brass, Thanks for your time!

Rico
 

BenG

Senior Member
Thanks Ben! Yes 1.05 is a bit hard to do but it's still work in progress
I'm also agreeing on your second tip. The balance of the orchestra is way different right now but i could not find the time to finish this piece yet with the new mixing approach in mind... Long story short: I use less main mic (or more close) to give the strings more definition. Sounds way cooler and like the recording of soundtracks in my opinion. I also did something like that with the brass, Thanks for your time!

Rico
Happy to pass along the kind words and they are truly deserved! Very cool to hear about your mixing process as well and you absolutely sold me on CSB:P Anyway, great work again and would love to hear more about your post-production in general!
 
OP
ricoderks

ricoderks

Active Member
Happy to pass along the kind words and they are truly deserved! Very cool to hear about your mixing process as well and you absolutely sold me on CSB:P Anyway, great work again and would love to hear more about your post-production in general!
I will post some updates when i'll have the time to continue the transcription! :)
 

mike829

New Member
This is amazing! Aside from improving the strings, this sounds VERY good. The brass is absolutely perfect. Particularly the trumpet section! To my ears, everything sounds pretty balanced and like they're playing together in the same room.
 
OP
ricoderks

ricoderks

Active Member
Hi Guys,

I did not continue the piece from Benny yet unfortunately. I have been working on improving the sound from my template. Wich was more important at the moment.
I'm using CSS, CSSS, CSB, True Strike and Auddict Master Woodwinds as my main sounds at the moment. All mics loaded, running from a slave pc (61GB ram used, totally worth it haha) What do you think about the sound?

Made a fake Williams/Star Wars sounding cue for balancing.


Cheers everyone!

Rico
 

arwyn

New Member
Hi Rico. Have been listening over and over to your mock up and I must say it sounds great! The balance between sections seems really good and it all sounds to me like they are playing in the same space. Can I ask how much work have you done to balance depth with each section as I am trying to create that cohesion in my template and struggling to be honest. I'm finding sitting brass,woods etc with ER and EQ a bit of a minefield. I just can't get them to sit right. Hope you don't mind me asking.
All the best
Arwyn
 

Assa

Active Member
Very nice job overall, especially your brass sounds great ! Seems like CSB is a really nice tool :)
Although transcribing by ear is a great thing to do, (and you did a fine job overall) I personally never do it when I'm testing my template - I always play in the full score, so you have the exact same material for comparison with the real recording.

I also did a mockup a while ago when Benny published his score, but your Brass definitely sound better, I remember having trouble getting the brass right in this piece.


Here is my attempt:

www.amadeus-pakmur.com/Short%20Ride%20In%20A%20Big%20Balloon%20Mockup1.wav
 

axb312

Senior Member
Hi Guys,

I did not continue the piece from Benny yet unfortunately. I have been working on improving the sound from my template. Wich was more important at the moment.
I'm using CSS, CSSS, CSB, True Strike and Auddict Master Woodwinds as my main sounds at the moment. All mics loaded, running from a slave pc (61GB ram used, totally worth it haha) What do you think about the sound?

Made a fake Williams/Star Wars sounding cue for balancing.


Cheers everyone!

Rico
Nice. Would love to see a walkthrough video of how you apply EQ, balancing and reverb if you have the time. Cheers.
 
OP
ricoderks

ricoderks

Active Member
Hi Rico. Have been listening over and over to your mock up and I must say it sounds great! The balance between sections seems really good and it all sounds to me like they are playing in the same space. Can I ask how much work have you done to balance depth with each section as I am trying to create that cohesion in my template and struggling to be honest. I'm finding sitting brass,woods etc with ER and EQ a bit of a minefield. I just can't get them to sit right. Hope you don't mind me asking.
All the best
Arwyn
Hi Arwyn!

Thanks for your comment and compliment :)
I did almost nothing actually: Used CSS/CSSS/CSB wich are recorded in the same room. I think that is key to make it sound 80% cohesive. Used some seperate mics and panned the close mics a little more left/right. On other libraries such as master woodwinds and True Strike i only tried to mimic the depth with the build in mics. On the overal mix i downed the 500/600 hz by 4db or so since I think the CSS\CSB sound is a little too fluffy and boomy there. Then some final reverb: Seventh Heaven. Hope that helps!

Very nice job overall, especially your brass sounds great ! Seems like CSB is a really nice tool :)
Although transcribing by ear is a great thing to do, (and you did a fine job overall) I personally never do it when I'm testing my template - I always play in the full score, so you have the exact same material for comparison with the real recording.

I also did a mockup a while ago when Benny published his score, but your Brass definitely sound better, I remember having trouble getting the brass right in this piece.


Here is my attempt:

www.amadeus-pakmur.com/Short%20Ride%20In%20A%20Big%20Balloon%20Mockup1.wav
Hi Assa,

Thanks for your reply.
I think you are absolutely right on transcribing by ear. And I can definitely hear some voicings in your mockup wich I did not even hear myself. But it was starting as a balancing test. Spend a little too much time on it later on and finding myself trying to replicate all parts by ear. And yes: CSB is great, not for everything though... That's when I grab good old samplemodeling :)


Nice. Would love to see a walkthrough video of how you apply EQ, balancing and reverb if you have the time. Cheers.
Who knows one day! Still want to finish it first....
Cheers!
 

handz

Senior Member
You are a demon, doing this by ear, wow! I really like your brass sound.

Sorry, I am being super confused lately with all the libraries acronyms. CSS, CSSS, CSB - CSSS is what? I assume that CSS and CSB are cinematic studio strings and brass right?
 
OP
ricoderks

ricoderks

Active Member
You are a demon, doing this by ear, wow! I really like your brass sound.

Sorry, I am being super confused lately with all the libraries acronyms. CSS, CSSS, CSB - CSSS is what? I assume that CSS and CSB are cinematic studio strings and brass right?
Yes: Cinematic Studio Strings, Cinematic Studio Solo Strings and Cinematic Studio Brass.

Thanks!
 

arwyn

New Member
Thanks Rico for the reply. Yes I think having libs from the same room/devs definitely helps. Also level balance between sections is crucial which I think you have done very convincingly. It's a great piece and now that I have the score would be a good tester for my template-If i ever stop obsessing about how far behind the strings are my brass!!!
 
OP
ricoderks

ricoderks

Active Member
Thanks Rico for the reply. Yes I think having libs from the same room/devs definitely helps. Also level balance between sections is crucial which I think you have done very convincingly. It's a great piece and now that I have the score would be a good tester for my template-If i ever stop obsessing about how far behind the strings are my brass!!!
Yes this track is great for referencing that hollywood sound i think. I also referred to " The Race" from Mike Verta for balancing. But like i mentioned before: This is definitely not the end result. I just calibrated my room/speakers and I can already hear some shitty mixing problems. Then again, I'm no Shawn Murphy/Dennis Sands. And it is not live so....... There is a limit somewhere :)
 

BenG

Senior Member
Yes this track is great for referencing that hollywood sound i think. I also referred to " The Race" from Mike Verta for balancing. But like i mentioned before: This is definitely not the end result. I just calibrated my room/speakers and I can already hear some shitty mixing problems. Then again, I'm no Shawn Murphy/Dennis Sands. And it is not live so....... There is a limit somewhere :)
This is so funny! I use those two pieces (The Race/Short Flight) as my two reference pieces as well! :P