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Mike Verta's Live Brass Class

Paul T McGraw

Senior Member
Mike's brass class is truly awesome. I have been involved in music for something like 50 years (I know, I'm old) and in my opinion it is truly unique. Anyone thinking about improving their understanding of brass (which these days is the core element of the orchestra) will benefit from the class.

I'm glad all the drama stuff is finished. One area I will probably never visit is the Drama Zone. :)
 

Dave Connor

Senior Member
...but I've heard from other long standing members here that they too have felt there is a bit less focus on musical discussions and production...
That’s because Mike is in fact not deleting threads/posts according to the wishes being expressed in this thread. He’s been allowing a certain freedom of expression while putting his foot down when the only yield is a major headache for him and others. He’s doing very well at that impossible job.
 

Mike Greene

Administrator
Don't you hate it when someone says "This is my last post in this thread," but then he comes back and posts again? :grin:

...but I've heard from other long standing members here that they too have felt there is a bit less focus on musical discussions and production...
Soooo ... why not post suggestions in the Forum Complaints section? (Granted, I should probably rename the suggestion "Forum Suggestions and Complaints," but I think the current title is funnier, so I'll probably leave it.)

On the specific topic of musical discussions and production, I recently added a sub-forum for "Music Interval Theory Academy" where they can have discussions. Frank asked me a few weeks ago if I would add the sub-forum, it seemed to me it might add some useful discussion, so I said okay. No charge, by the way.

So maybe we could do the same thing for Mike Verta. The sub-forum would have to be about legitimate discussion, as opposed to testimonials and tech support (same rules for Frank and for EIS), but if real music discussion happened there, it could be worthwhile.
 
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synergy543

synergy543

Senior Member
Don't you hate it when someone says "This is my last post in this thread," but then he comes back and posts again? :grin:
Well actually, you have my respect for coming back to discuss these issues. While not everyone is seeing things the same way, keeping a dialog open is the only way to narrow differences.

Soooo ... why not post suggestions in the Forum Complaints section? (Granted, I should probably rename the suggestion "Forum Suggestions and Complaints," but I think the current title is funnier, so I'll probably leave it.)
Thanks, I didn't even know this existed. Issues I see occur, are less about the forum, and more to do with general trends and seeing less member participation in musical topics outside of commercial libraries.

On the specific topic of musical discussions and production, I recently added a sub-forum for "Music Interval Theory Academy" where they can have discussions. Frank asked me a few weeks ago if I would add the sub-forum, it seemed to me it might add some useful discussion, so I said okay. No charge, by the way.
Cool. I think the idea of sub forums might encourage member activity when sub-forum participants are all focused on the same topic. I think it might allow people to feel they can step up and share something where otherwise they might have been less likely to do so in a more general forum. You know, kind of like "stepping out of the closet", where all the like-kind members can feel comfortable discussing together. Really its a matter of what organization works best. I'm no expert in organization, but good organization might help facilitate member participation.

So maybe we could do the same thing for Mike Verta. The sub-forum would have to be about legitimate discussion, as opposed to testimonials and tech support (same rules for Frank and for EIS), but if real music discussion happened there, it could be worthwhile.
I hope you can Mike can work something out that is agreeable to both of you. Many of the members on both forums are the same and the topics discussed bounce back and forth between forums. I see no reason why discussions on similar topics on both forums can't mutually exist as the groups interested in these discussions are relatively small and the interests and concerns are the same for everyone involved with only slight variations.

Again, thanks for stepping up to the plate to keep a dialog open. I hope both Mikes can build bridges between the forums as the same members are on both and I am just one of them. I started this thread in hopes that it might open up some dialog so if that happens as a result, I'm pleased. And I think keeping information flowing about opportunities at both forums is a win for everyone. There's good stuff happening at both sites so lets not burn the bridges that can help everyone improve.
 

Mike Greene

Administrator
I hope you and Mike can work something out that is agreeable to both of you. Many of the members on both forums are the same and the topics discussed bounce back and forth between forums. I see no reason why discussions on similar topics on both forums can't mutually exist as the groups interested in these discussions are relatively small and the interests and concerns are the same for everyone involved with only slight variations.
Sounds good. I think this could be a very cool sub-forum, but I'm guessing Mike will be reluctant to do this, so I am hereby putting you in charge of selling the idea. ;)

My advice would be to rally the troops on the Redbanned forum to see if they would like a Mike Verta sub-forum on VI-Control. I'm guessing they will, so then it will be harder for Mike to argue with "popular demand."
 
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synergy543

synergy543

Senior Member
Mike, I do not represent or speak for Mike Verta nor the redbanned community. These are just my opinions. I'm just a member of both forums.

I'm not sure that a "Mike Verta sub-forum" would be the best idea though. Why categorize sub-forums by people rather than by topic? Unless, that person wants to host a class on vi-control as Peter Alexander once did (which btw was extremely successful - particularly because it was by invite only, so no trolls and members felt very comfortable with each other). Still, it wasn't a "Peter Alexander sub-forum" but a "VI-Pro Orchestration Class sub-forum". So for example, if Mike V wanted to host a class on transcription, then it might make sense to set up a sub-forum for this particular topic. Then, only members could join and participate (but anyone could sign up to be a member, they just have to follow the sub-forum rules which might allow for tighter moderation and willingness to only criticize in the spirit of support so that members can encourage each other and know they can be more open among a secluded group of student members seeking the same goals).

I know other educators have expressed desire to set up sub-forums on vi-control. Obviously, they want to make students aware of their offerings and yet they are also offering something beneficial to vi-control users as well so it seems like a good mutual trade. This was very much the case with Peter Alexander's Orchestration class. It would be great to see more of this type of educational focus if someone wanted to lead this. I know Norman Ludwin expressed interest at one point and I'm sure there are others teachers who might be interested as well so its something to consider.

As for discussing topics that might be related to Mike Verta's class, why would these be in a sub-forum? For example, if I listen to Alexander Schiborr's Excelsior piece posted on vi-control, and I think "wow, you'd get a lot out of watching Mike V's Live Brass Class", and I mention this on vi-control, is this verboten? If so, I'll refrain from sharing such things in the future but I would like to know if there are new lines in the sand or not. Up until now, I never would have hesitated to make such a comment and I don't think it ever was a problem. Actually, a lot of people were interested in topics Mike Verta was discussing as he was very open about sharing ideas on transcription and composing. I believe that is why he consolidated everything on vi-control into a single post so that he could easily respond to comments rather than having them scattered all over vi-control. This seemed mutually beneficial and both Mike V and vi-control members seems quite happy for 136 pages until now. I'm not sure why this is a thing all of the sudden. Everyone was good.

In any case, as I said before, I think the sub-forums are really just an organizational issue so its best you think carefully about how that suits yourself and the members of vi-control. As for myself, I almost never use the forum categories at all as my knee-jerk reaction when I log onto vi-control is to hit "Recent Posts". That's where I hang.

Regardless of my thoughts, I don't want to be thorn or a pawn between the two forum owners nor the forums. Out of the goodness of my heart, I just tried to be a facilitator to get a discussion going. Sometimes it works, and sometimes I regret stepping up. Oh well, real life is worse than that. And real politics is even scarier! I'll mention this thread over an redbanned and see if others have ideas they want to input here.
 

Mike Greene

Administrator
As for discussing topics that might be related to Mike Verta's class, why would these be in a sub-forum?
I should have been more clear. I wasn't thinking this would be for topics related to his classes. Those discussions should obviously be on Redbanned.

My idea was for a separate sub-forum where Mike could post random composing or orchestration tips and carry on discussions with a larger audience than what Redbanned might have. Sort of a "Mike's Corner" kind of a thing. It was just an idea and if people aren't interested, that's fine.
 
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synergy543

synergy543

Senior Member
Hi Mike, seems like a nice gesture. I posted a msg over on redbanned so we'll have to see what people think. Ultimately though, it seems this is up to you and Mike Verta.

However, you have to realize that this discussion will exclude close to 100% of vi-control members as this thread doesn't appear on the recent posts as its burried in the Drama forum. Maybe vi-control members might have some thoughts on this as well?
 

mverta

One with the Force
I almost never need to be sold on opportunities to help people, and I agree it is a magnanimous gesture on Mike's part to even entertain the idea. One part of me says, "Does VI really need another forum/sub-forum?" On the other hand, the idea of being able to drop composing nuggets in a centralized place sounds fun and cool. So here's what I propose - if Mike wants to set-up a "Mike's Corner" type of thing, I'll populate it. We can let it run awhile and see if it merits sticking around. If it languishes, let it die. If it flourishes, so much the better. Redbanned is an entire forum dedicated to "Mike's Corner," but there is absolutely no competition being run between the forums on my part. That sounds so silly I almost can't type it with a straight face. And I sure as hell don't wish failure on anyone; this life is hard enough as it is. If there's worthwhile information to be shared; information which helps us grow and improve and prosper as musicians, I'm for it, and any mechanism which facilitates it!
 
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Mike Greene

Administrator
I hear you on the "Does VI-C really need another sub-forum" issue, because I've been trying make fewer sub-forums lately, and I suppose most topics could probably just as easily go into the Composition/Orchestration sub-forum. This could be cool though, because the atmosphere would be different, which could lead to different types of discussions. I think it's worth a shot, and as you say, we can pull the plug if it bombs.

Lets aim to start next week. This week is a mess for me, plus we need to come up with a name. ("Mike's Corner" would be confusing, since I'm Mike as well.) There also seems to be some pushback about this on Redbanned, so this gives everyone time to think about it.
 

jononotbono

Luke Johnson
Just bought Mike's Brass Masterclass. Thank goodness someone has done this. I'm only 10 minutes in. It's amazing. Hoping for Winds, Strings, and Perc at a later date.
 

Michael Antrum

Only the good die young....
It was terrific - wasn't it. Learned a ton, and not just the obvious stuff.

It makes me want to take a year out of work, and spend it bothering musicians and learning more stuff.

Mike really should have his own show...
 

jononotbono

Luke Johnson
It was terrific - wasn't it. Learned a ton, and not just the obvious stuff.

It makes me want to take a year out of work, and spend it bothering musicians and learning more stuff.

Mike really should have his own show...
Loved it and will watch so many times. I am going to go back to composition 1 soon and re watch everything I have bought in the past. Just paused my MFA for a while and going to spend the spare time it will give me to get on top of so much I need to learn before finishing it.
 

pfylim

Pinky Fats
Mike's brass class is truly awesome. I have been involved in music for something like 50 years (I know, I'm old) and in my opinion it is truly unique. Anyone thinking about improving their understanding of brass (which these days is the core element of the orchestra) will benefit from the class.

I'm glad all the drama stuff is finished. One area I will probably never visit is the Drama Zone. :)
You seem to be praising Mike's courses a lot. Let me give you my 2 cents and say it as it is. I have 10 of his courses and it's all just tips and tricks without any structure. In fact, they are all live streams where he is mostly just answering questions. He calls this a "Masterclass" of all things. And he wants to charge you for sitting for 4 hours chatting away. On top of that you need to put up with endless verbal diarrhoea, unfunny sexual metaphors and constant whiskey drinking. It's the worst source pedagogically from a relatively unsuccessful composer that never managed to develop a voice of his own. Yea, let's learn from this guy. I have wasted my money because I read threads like yours.
 
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Paul T McGraw

Senior Member
You seem to be praising Mike's courses a lot. Let me give you my 2 cents and say it as it is. I have 10 of his courses and it's all just tips and tricks without any structure. In fact, they are all live streams where he is mostly just answering questions. He calls this a "Masterclass" of all things. And he wants to charge you for sitting for 4 hours chatting away. On top of that you need to put up with endless verbal diarrhoea, unfunny sexual metaphors and constant whiskey drinking. It's the worst source pedagogically from a relatively unsuccessful composer that never managed to develop a voice of his own. Yea, let's learn from this guy. I have wasted my money because I read threads like yours.
I'm sorry that you feel I misled you. If you think the "Live Brass" or "Orchestration 3" videos are unstructured and a waste of your money, then you and I will just have to agree to disagree. Mike Verta has his own unique style. There are plenty of other options if Mike's style does not work for you. That being said, there are lots of people who have benefitted from Mike's videos, not just me.

Good luck, and happy composing!
 

Michael Antrum

Only the good die young....
You seem to be praising Mike's courses a lot. Let me give you my 2 cents and say it as it is. I have 10 of his courses and it's all just tips and tricks without any structure. In fact, they are all live streams where he is mostly just answering questions. He calls this a "Masterclass" of all things. And he wants to charge you for sitting for 4 hours chatting away. On top of that you need to put up with endless verbal diarrhoea, unfunny sexual metaphors and constant whiskey drinking. It's the worst source pedagogically from a relatively unsuccessful composer that never managed to develop a voice of his own. Yea, let's learn from this guy. I have wasted my money because I read threads like yours.
Your first post too.....
 

chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
Answering questions sounds like my favorite class with a famous Conductor I had.
We had structure in the the books we studied. Three actually, where we had to come prepared to class, take a test everyday, then everybody was allowed a question with a possible follow up as long as it wasn’t grandstanding.

I’ve never had a class where I learned so much.

I’m thinking maybe these Verta classes might be worth a look see.

Besides any composer that carries a 45 is okay by me.

Glad I dropped in.
 

ProfoundSilence

Active Member
took 10 courses to figure out that you don't like his loosely structured lessons? Quite the slow learner I suppose, but a learner none the less.

let me guess, you bought 40 hours worth of material, watched about 20-30 minutes of each one, didn't wake up with studios clogging your inbox with gigs. I get that you don't like the relatively lose structure of the classes - but there is such thing as a text book, that you can - in fact purchase and learn in a 100% structured method, since clearly - you're a self structured diligent student, I'm sure you'll go page by page, example by example, and fill out the included workbooks before moving onto the next lesson.

as far as success - its pretty damn obvious from multiple angles in multiple rooms from his videos that he lives in quite a nice place, filled with nice things. And has time to jabber on for hours casually about writing music - while drinking, from a nice bar at his house, filled with a large amount of alcohol - while living in LA, which is not exactly the most economically reasonable locations to survive.

Go ahead and ask Mike what his day job is - … I'll wait. That's because he gets paid to compose music, and gets paid well enough quite obviously. Is fame your marker for successful career?, or not having to find work? Plenty of pop culture icons live dirt poor, bankrupt, ect. He's decades into his career, and still able to put presents under the Christmas tree.

Since this is your first post, which is normally for introductions - may I ask exactly what your "introduction" post has actually taught us about who you are? Other than someone who bought 10 classes before deciding they needed to rage post on someone else's forum. I know I personally want to know what the 10th class was, since apparently the first 9 you found valuable enough to simply not exist on VI-C, but this magical 10th class was all or nothing.
 
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