Mike Verta's Live Brass Class

Discussion in 'Drama Zone' started by synergy543, May 15, 2018.

  1. synergy543

    synergy543 Senior Member

    Dec 11, 2004
    The Internets
    Mike Verta's Live Brass Class was really a wonder opportunity to not only learn details about brass instruments writing but also the reference material he provided is invaluable (three scores with mockups, and live recordings for comparison and study). There are so few in-depth educational resources available like this I truly applaud Mike's magnanimous efforts to make these rare educational resources available.

    In light of this, its very sad to see the tawdry battle going on right now and banishment of Mike's thread on this forum. Regardless of your opinion, Mike Verta's thread thread held years and years of valuable information that should not be hidden and suppressed. This tribal warfare is very sad to see happening in such a small community. Can't we have some tolerance for each other's differences and opinions?

    Here's a little promo of Mike's Live Brass Class:
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  2. bryla

    bryla Senior Member

    Aug 16, 2006
    Many (if not all) of the aspects Mike talks about has taken me years of writing and money spent on sessions to learn so if you don't have that much experience with live players this masterclass will teach you how to session right!
    douggibson and hawpri like this.
  3. hawpri

    hawpri Senior Member

    I paid for the course but haven't had the chance to watch the videos or study any of it yet, so I'm looking forward to that when there's time. It's the first course I purchased and I'm glad to know of his site and forum (and this forum) for the resources it has. I hope things get cleared up here and settled both properly and respectfully for the affected individuals/parties before long. I've visited the forum often enough over the years to know what kind of a resource it is and what it can be to newer and more experienced composers. When things are good here it's great to visit, and when it's not going well it really seems to take some time for the dust to settle.
  4. N.Caffrey

    N.Caffrey Senior Member

    Mar 15, 2016
    I missed what happened. Why is MVerta banned?
  5. OP

    synergy543 Senior Member

    Dec 11, 2004
    The Internets
    I didn't say MVerta is banned (he may be, I don't know), I said his 136-page consolidated thread with years of accumulated and useful information is now gone. I don't know the details but regardless, all of the years of info should not just disappear like that. Those things happen in North Korea, or back at Northern Sounds, why is it happening here?
  6. Tatu

    Tatu Lannister

    Mar 9, 2012
    Vantaa, Finland
    What the hell is going on in here..
  7. tack

    tack Damned Dirty Ape

    Aug 3, 2013
    The Live Symphonic Brass class was definitely a departure in format from his other classes, so if you've passed on his content based on what you saw in the free Unleashed courses, take a closer look at Live Brass.

    One of my favorite aspects of the class were these little experiments where players would be instructed to run through the piece while ignoring dynamics markings, or playing at one dynamic lower than marked, or different tempo, or played without regard to articulation markings, or played section by section. That plus some interesting questions to the band that elicited some honest and interesting feedback.

    Fantastic value for the insights crammed into the three hours of content.
  8. mikeybabes

    mikeybabes Only the good die young....

    Nov 21, 2016
    Yorkshire, U.K.
    I had bookmarked lots of specific posts in that epic thread. There were some incredibly useful links and ideas within it.

    What on earth is going on with this place ?

    Yeah, Right....

    Back on topic, however, the Live Symphonic Brass was one of the most useful things I've participated in. It gave me a perspective that I can't see that you will get anywhere else, short of having you own sessions with orchestral sections. Even then, I'm not sure even then you would get the honest feedback from the musicians that Mike rolled out.

    It must have been an insane amount of work for Mike. I do hope that it pans out financially for him, as I would love to see more live classes for woods and strings.
    Paul T McGraw likes this.
  9. Tfis

    Tfis Senior Member

    Jan 13, 2016
    I didn't read "delete threads"... :sneaky:
  10. vicontrolu

    vicontrolu Senior Member

    Dec 1, 2008
    hey..what really happened to the Mike Verta post??
    Mike Fox likes this.
  11. MatFluor

    MatFluor Senior Member

    Jan 11, 2017
    I'm not taking part in bashing - so straight to the point:

    The Brass Masterclass was an amazing thing, and I would love to see more. For me, who never worked with a group of orchestral musicians (only soloists) it was amazing to hear, see and compare different takes on the pieces, different interpretations and hear the differences. Truly awesome.
    Paul T McGraw likes this.
  12. I wonder if there is gonna be a "Vi-Control contest" to guess which thread is next to be deleted...
    Mike Greene likes this.
  13. mverta

    mverta One with the Force

    Jul 10, 2008
    Los Angeles
    TL;DR - Frederick liked my classes. He offered me a perpetual single banner ad in exchange for lifetime access to all Masterclasses. When Mike took over, he offered to honor that deal for a year. Given all that's transpired on this site - how radically it has changed; how splintered and segmented and divisive the sections have become; how much drama and hostility has emerged - on another forum elsewhere on the internet I said VI-C wasn't like it used to be. Comparatively, I said, it seemed like a trash fire. It was sort of an off-hand comment, but Mike found it and didn't like it. He didn't like my suggestion that things had deteriorated here, so he reneged on the deal, pulled my ad and deleted a multi-year thread which had nothing but positive, helpful, and encouraging content spread over 100+ pages. (That's how I got the 100+ milestone avatar - this was previously considered laudable. Mike has said the thread was on the block anyway for lack of being properly organized and useful.) All of this sort of makes my point, I think, but more importantly:

    It is his forum, and it is his right. I made it clear I never criticize without being willing to help; my criticisms always come from a place of support; I don't like hurting people. I made some suggestions, and have left an open door for any way in which I might be able to help things. I am not banned, my content is simply... deleted. I've been invited to start over on Tier 2... In the end, Mike has referred to himself as a "don't fuck with me" kinda guy; I'm more of a "perhaps we should consider the reasoned criticisms of long-standing members with universally-positive contributions to the site," kinda guy, but this isn't my site. Redbanned.com is my site, and that's where I get to do that sort of thing.

    Anyway, play on. And I'm thrilled to hear you guys get so much out of the Live Brass class. I'm biased, but I agree the musicians taught us all immeasurable, priceless stuff!
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  14. Mike Greene

    Mike Greene Administrator

    1) The passive aggressive tone taken in your post is, at the very least, disingenuous.

    2) A “long standing, supportive member of the community” would have contacted the forum owner BEFORE posting “I think VI-C is mostly a trash fire, judging by what wafts past me when I occasionally log in.”

    3) I was under no obligation to keep running your free banner ad.

    4) My immediate goal is to reduce unnecessary drama, hyperbole, and especially personal attacks in order to make this a place people enjoy visiting.

    5) My intent was that this would be a private matter between you and me. That's why I sent a PM. I naively assumed you would apologize for the trash fire remark rather than doubling down on it, at which point I was going to reinstate the mega-thread and possibly your ad. All privately, no muss, no fuss.

    6) The mega-thread was unmanageable. There were better ways to handle the content, and no one in their right mind would read through the entire thread to find the good bits. Plus it kept appearing in Latest Posts which was annoying for the general membership.

    6b) With that said, I do agree that people’s contributions shouldn’t be deleted wholesale, so I had already reinstated the thread here.

    I’m not interested in another drama, so this will be my only post on this topic. I promise no one will be banned, though, so anyone else is free to carry on however you like. Tomorrow, I’ll move this thread to the Drama Zone.
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  15. mikeybabes

    mikeybabes Only the good die young....

    Nov 21, 2016
    Yorkshire, U.K.
    Thank you for re-instating the thread Mike.

    The fact that it was a bit unwieldy and over long meant that you often stumbled across some interesting nuggets that you otherwise wouldn't have found. Sometimes it's more about the journey than the destination.

    And just in case you are feeling that running this forum is a bit of a thankless task - I'd just like to say - Thank you for running this forum.
  16. midi-et-quart

    midi-et-quart 12:15

    Apr 16, 2018

    Freedom of expression is one of the great things about the internet, for better and for worse. Posting such a statement on another forum shouldn't be a problem at all...
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    Spip, JeffvR and d.healey like this.
  17. OP

    synergy543 Senior Member

    Dec 11, 2004
    The Internets
    Mike, thanks from me too for re-instating that thread. However, there's another issue here too that is likely worth at least an open dialog rather than closing the doors on. I can't speak for Mike V, but I've heard from other long standing members here that they too have felt there is a bit less focus on musical discussions and production techniques on this forum compared with several years ago so maybe this is a worthwhile topic to keep open for discussion rather than closing dialog due to tribal warfare?

    Mike Greene, you stepped up to the plate to save vi-control! Thank you for doing that. Regardless of anyone's comments, I think almost everyone would like ultimately like to see vi-control thrive and flourish with interesting conversations. So maybe even negative comments have value in focusing on where to make improvements? We have to recognize a problem first before we can effectively tackle it.

    Maybe the changes we see around here are just a reflection of the polarization and tribalism we are seeing throughout our society. But this is a small world. So lets do what we can to improve it. And that starts with keeping dialog open and keeping your enemies close and be willing to listen to different opinions as well as those of friends.

    Thanks again for your efforts and remember to not take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive (sorry, I've no control over that, but I appreciate the levity you've had as you've governed the forum and hope you continue in that spirit).
  18. mverta

    mverta One with the Force

    Jul 10, 2008
    Los Angeles
    This isn't specifically directed at Mike, but I'm a homeschooling father; I can't resist the "teachable moment," so forgive a bit of pretentiousness here...

    Since my first BBS in 1984 my username has been mverta - I've been ready to take accountability for everything I do online ever since. And the truth is, when we're good people who carefully consider what we post, and can defend our positions; when we don't post irresponsibly or emotionally; when our posts come from a place of support and being willing to help; when even criticisms are offered with a promise to be part of helping someone improve, then no, we don't have to apologize for what we say. We don't have to apologize to the infinite variety of people for the infinite variety of ways they might simply react, Pavlovian, like single-cell organisms responding to stimuli, to things they don't like. Part of what we earn by being conscientious with what we post is not having to fear the reactionary spew of people who don't bother to ask/inquire/consider/think/reason. It's instead comforting to know that we have a reasoned, defensible position, and we're neither afraid of being challenged, nor have to make embarrassing apologies or retract words or actions. It's worth the energy in patience and perspective. I hate the Simon Cowells of the world - all shit talk, not an ounce of getting off his ass and helping somebody improve. But sometimes, we gotta hear that we suck, if we suck. But if that's the criticism, be able to explain it, expound on it; be willing to help me with it. If it's not worth that, then don't say anything. That's not too much for us to ask of each other or ourselves. This alone would transform this, and most social contact.

    I'm glad Mike's reinstated the thread. Let us speak of this no more. :)
  19. germancomponist

    germancomponist Senior Member

    Jul 11, 2007
    d.healey likes this.
  20. d.healey

    d.healey Music Monkey

    Nov 2, 2011
    This is true, and the forum search and other search engines like Google find things within the thread so it's not necessary to read the entire thread end to end to find good info :)
    creativeforge likes this.

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