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Maybe an Apple Silicon iMac is coming soon?

rnb_2

Rick Baumhauer
I was previously of the opinion that the next Apple release event (possibly later this month) would be iPad-focused, with no new Mac announcements coming until WWDC in June. However, in the last few days we've gotten word that the 512GB and 1TB SSD configurations of the 4k 21.5" iMac are no longer available, and that the iMac Pro has been officially discontinued, with only the base 10-core configuration available "while supplies last".

It certainly looks like they're preparing to announce something, and sooner than June.
 
I was going to start a thread about the demise of the iMac Pro but I'll add to this one instead. 😂

Yep, it definitely looks like the iMac is going Apple Silicon sooner rather than later doesn't it? I'd imagine AS versions of the lower range iMacs could even be M1 based and I'm sure they'd make great machines too. Of more interest is how much power is going to be in the 27inch versions?

The iMac Pro I always thought might be a stopgap. For musicians, I'd be really interested to see how far Apple takes the Mac mini. Mac mini pro? Might be an option considering how much cooler Apple Silicon machines run.
 
The iMac Pro's place was, from the day it was announced, on shaky ground. It was a relic from (https://sixcolors.com/post/2021/03/goodbye-parallel-timeline-apple-discontinues-the-imac-pro/ (as Jason Snell puts it)) "a parallel timeline", where Apple didn't decide in early 2017 to rededicate itself to its professional users. It was an undeniably great machine, its cooling system a work of art, but it was conceived in a world where it replaced the Mac Pro, and once Apple decided to revive the Mac Pro, it was always questionable whether the iMac Pro would hold a permanent place in the product lineup. When it never received a meaningful update over the years, today's news seemed inevitable.

That said, it's very much the second shoe to drop this week. I'm still trying to figure out what the combined stories mean, in the near term. Does the elimination of the BTO storage configs of the 4k iMac mean that Apple has all it needs of the standard configs for the foreseeable future, and it's converting a manufacturing facility? Why isn't the 4k tagged as "discontinued" like the iMac Pro? Are the standard configs sticking around after an Apple Silicon replacement arrives? If so, it looks like the opposite tack of the Mac mini, where the high end Intel configs stuck around - elimination of some of the expensive Intel options points to something coming into the lineup above them, but that would also seem to indicate something other than an M1-based machine, given the existing RAM limitation.

Then there's the fact that the high-end Intel storage options are gone, but you're still free to upgrade to an i7 with 32GB of RAM and the Vega 20 GPU, but wouldn't anybody interested in those upgrades also want something other than a 256GB SSD or 1TB Fusion Drive? It's all a bit mysterious.

Here's hoping we know more within the next month.
 
The iMac Pro's place was, from the day it was announced, on shaky ground. It was a relic from (https://sixcolors.com/post/2021/03/goodbye-parallel-timeline-apple-discontinues-the-imac-pro/ (as Jason Snell puts it)) "a parallel timeline", where Apple didn't decide in early 2017 to rededicate itself to its professional users. It was an undeniably great machine, its cooling system a work of art, but it was conceived in a world where it replaced the Mac Pro, and once Apple decided to revive the Mac Pro, it was always questionable whether the iMac Pro would hold a permanent place in the product lineup. When it never received a meaningful update over the years, today's news seemed inevitable.

That said, it's very much the second shoe to drop this week. I'm still trying to figure out what the combined stories mean, in the near term. Does the elimination of the BTO storage configs of the 4k iMac mean that Apple has all it needs of the standard configs for the foreseeable future, and it's converting a manufacturing facility? Why isn't the 4k tagged as "discontinued" like the iMac Pro? Are the standard configs sticking around after an Apple Silicon replacement arrives? If so, it looks like the opposite tack of the Mac mini, where the high end Intel configs stuck around - elimination of some of the expensive Intel options points to something coming into the lineup above them, but that would also seem to indicate something other than an M1-based machine, given the existing RAM limitation.

Then there's the fact that the high-end Intel storage options are gone, but you're still free to upgrade to an i7 with 32GB of RAM and the Vega 20 GPU, but wouldn't anybody interested in those upgrades also want something other than a 256GB SSD or 1TB Fusion Drive? It's all a bit mysterious.

Here's hoping we know more within the next month.
Yeah it’s unfortunate but Apple seems more in favor of a mass consumer targeted user base without possibilities of diy expansions and modifications and doesn’t put too much thought or focus on the lower and mid tier creative market or that user base.
 
While I hope they go ahead and reveal whatever they are doing with the iMacs in totality, I'm betting they introduce a lower end version first with the M1x chips... leaving the intel 27" version for those not wanting to pay the Apple tax for the Mac Pro.

Here is the current Apple dilemma:

Need more than 128GB of ram?
  • Buy a deprecated, 4yr old iMac Pro and add the ram yourself thereby voiding your warranty
  • Go back to PC... this is a no go for me and most people in the Apple ecosystem
  • Buy PC VEPro slaves... still a no go for me. Don't even want to think about it, but I've considered it
  • Buy 3 year old Mac Mini's loaded w 64GB each for VEPro slaves
  • Hope for a miracle hail mary Intel/Apple announcement of 256gb ram support in an i9 for an upcoming intel iMac.
  • So, Mac Pro is the only answer here if you want to stay with Apple

128GB of ram good enough?
  • 2020 iMac is the only answer here. Load it out to the gills. You are now in base-Mac Pro price range territory and should now consider if spending a few K more on your dream rig is worth it. It isn't the total price now that is a consideration. It is the difference between what you'd spend anyway on a loaded iMac 5k and an upgradable Mac Pro rig... is it worth the price difference with the inevitable revision this year? That's the debate now.... and what would your display solution be since iMac displays have been the gold standard for years now.

Looking to the future or want to wait and see what is gonna happen?
  • wait on MacMini M1 announcements with > 64GB ram for use as VEPro slaves. Build a Mini Farm.
  • wait on iMac ARM announcements... likely will be the lower end before a pro-end is revealed
  • Mac Pro with Thunderbolt 4 and PCIE4? Plan on waiting for a year or two is my guess.
  • Mac Pro with ARM? I'd be surprised if that arrives before 2022
  • Mac Pro with any intel updates & revisions? Guessing this happens in 2021 with a thunderbolt 4 upgrade
  • Mac Pro Cube/ Modular Mac Pro? This has a shot at coming out this year I think. Probably announced in the fall would be my guess.

Apple, please prove me wrong. Audio and Video pros are waiting on a > 128GB option to be presented asap.
 
While I hope they go ahead and reveal whatever they are doing with the iMacs in totality, I'm betting they introduce a lower end version first with the M1x chips... leaving the intel 27" version for those not wanting to pay the Apple tax for the Mac Pro.
Yeah - whatever is coming is the replacement, in some fashion, for some portion of the 4k iMac range, likely with a 24" display. That 21.5" DCI 4k display was always an odd duck, though I really liked it when my eyes were going through an aging phase that made it difficult to find the right viewing distance - 27" was too large for how close I needed the display in order to read comfortably with the close-up portion of my progressives. The 21.5" display was just the right size then, but my eyes have settled down and now a 27" display isn't a problem, but I don't really like the 27" iMac, so it's Mac minis for me at the moment.

If Apple is set to release an iMac with something above the M1, it makes me wonder if we'll also see new laptops with the same processing package at the same time. I was assuming they'd all come together at WWDC, but maybe the more mid-range iMac isn't considered a developer's setup and will debut by itself.
 
Yeah - whatever is coming is the replacement, in some fashion, for some portion of the 4k iMac range, likely with a 24" display. That 21.5" DCI 4k display was always an odd duck, though I really liked it when my eyes were going through an aging phase that made it difficult to find the right viewing distance - 27" was too large for how close I needed the display in order to read comfortably with the close-up portion of my progressives. The 21.5" display was just the right size then, but my eyes have settled down and now a 27" display isn't a problem, but I don't really like the 27" iMac, so it's Mac minis for me at the moment.

If Apple is set to release an iMac with something above the M1, it makes me wonder if we'll also see new laptops with the same processing package at the same time. I was assuming they'd all come together at WWDC, but maybe the more mid-range iMac isn't considered a developer's setup and will debut by itself.
I hear ya! My current 27” retina iMac sits uncomfortably about a foot farther back than I’d like. I heavily use the screen zoom function from the accessibility features to read the small stuff. Just hold down the ctrl button and zoom in with the mouse. Zoom back out. Onto the next thing. I started out using the zoom for screen capture videos, but realized it was great for everyday tasks as well. If you haven’t tried it, you should give it a whirl.
 
I hear ya! My current 27” retina iMac sits uncomfortably about a foot farther back than I’d like. I heavily use the screen zoom function from the accessibility features to read the small stuff. Just hold down the ctrl button and zoom in with the mouse. Zoom back out. Onto the next thing. I started out using the zoom for screen capture videos, but realized it was great for everyday tasks as well. If you haven’t tried it, you should give it a whirl.
Thanks - I feel like I spend so much time reading from the screen, I need it to be comfortable without modification, and the 2560x1440 points resolution is my sweet spot for UI size/information density (though I wish it was a 16x10 ratio, honestly). So I have a 27" 4k BenQ display simulating that at about 27" viewing distance, and that works well now. When I last had a 27" iMac, that viewing distance fell uncomfortably between my close focus and far focus prescriptions, but my new lenses have a spot that works well.

Also, I don't use a mouse (Wacom + Magic Trackpad), but the trackpad lets me zoom easily enough - I just wouldn't want to be doing it constantly.
 
I think a Mac mini M1x with 64 gb of ram might occupy a very nice sweet spot (performance vs price) for music makers.

Despite the rumours I remain unconvinced that there’s some sort of Mac Pro “mini” in the works, simply because if there was a market for such a machine, Apple would have made it by now.

My guess is that with fast external storage, the whole SOC thing and the reduced thermal limitations of Apple Silicon, Apple might be tempted to level up the existing product lineup to market into any Mac Pro “prosumer” space.
 
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I got my iMac Pro with 128gb of ram, I wouldn’t want to do a ram upgrade by taking the whole thing apart, don’t understand why Apple chose to not have an easy ram upgrade option like on the iMacs. 256gb of ram would be nice though haha! I have the 14 core, and it’s been a Stella work horse. I don’t think I have ever heard the fans kick in, even when pushing it to the extreme limits!
 
Despite the rumours I remain unconvinced that there’s some sort of Mac Pro “mini” in the works, simply because if there was a market for such a machine, Apple would have made it by now.

My guess is that with fast external storage, the whole SOC thing and the reduced thermal limitations of Apple Silicon, Apple might be tempted to level up the existing product lineup to market into any Mac Pro “prosumer” space.
This remains the big question with the "mini Mac Pro" that has been rumored, since it's been described more as a "tall mini" than a mini tower. I'm not sure that the lack of a smaller, less expensive Mac Pro was indicative of a lack of interest on Apple's part — that's partly what the 2013 Mac Pro was, after all — but rather the inability to manufacture such a computer with Intel parts and available GPUs in the current market.

As you say, the thermal headroom afforded by Apple Silicon opens up some possibilities, and like you, I'm suspicious that anything that lacks PCI slots can be marketed as a Mac Pro. There is certainly a space for a machine with a LOT more CPU power, but a less than high-end gaming/workstation GPU, while also foregoing internal PCI expansion. The enduring questions are twofold: would Apple bring to market a machine that might substantially encroach on the iMac's turf (and profit)?; and what would Apple call such a machine?
 
lNzXc_.gif

As I see it, the issue for the ram hungry VIC crowd is that music makers who don't deal with the orchestra (i.e the vast majority) are satisfied with less ram. This months YouTube is full of video editors and photographers trading in new Mac Pros for new M1 Minis as they can happily do work with 16gb too. So there isn't a massive incentive for Apple to create a "prosumer" model with greedy ram slots.

I guess the big question is the ram - how far will the SOC design let Apple go with it? Latest rumour is that the M1x will still max out at 16gb.
 
I got my iMac Pro with 128gb of ram, I wouldn’t want to do a ram upgrade by taking the whole thing apart, don’t understand why Apple chose to not have an easy ram upgrade option like on the iMacs. 256gb of ram would be nice though haha! I have the 14 core, and it’s been a Stella work horse. I don’t think I have ever heard the fans kick in, even when pushing it to the extreme limits!

The iMac Pro has a different thermal system that takes up room to make the RAM accessible. Or at least that is the reason they give.
 
The iMac Pro has a different thermal system that takes up room to make the RAM accessible. Or at least that is the reason they give.
Yes, the iMac Pro has 80% higher cooling capacity than the 5k iMac - it has the ducts for two fans and a large heat sink where the 5k's RAM sits. Also, it uses physically larger DIMMs (like in the Mac Pro) instead of the smaller SO-DIMMs in the 5k, and they're in two banks of two, one bank on either side of the CPU. Any access panel would have to have been many times larger than on the 5k, and couldn't be hidden behind the stand. Lack of user accessibility was the downside to Apple figuring out how to squeeze a Xeon and power-hungry GPU into an iMac enclosure with what was available in 2017.
 
I always argued that's what the trashcan was.
Exactly, but its ingenious cooling solution could only move so much air, and the world moved to hotter, more power-hungry GPUs that the trashcan couldn’t accommodate.
 
lNzXc_.gif

As I see it, the issue for the ram hungry VIC crowd is that music makers who don't deal with the orchestra (i.e the vast majority) are satisfied with less ram. This months YouTube is full of video editors and photographers trading in new Mac Pros for new M1 Minis as they can happily do work with 16gb too. So there isn't a massive incentive for Apple to create a "prosumer" model with greedy ram slots.

I guess the big question is the ram - how far will the SOC design let Apple go with it? Latest rumour is that the M1x will still max out at 16gb.
This was the most shocking thing for me when I ventured into this world not quite a year ago: serious RAM usage. I knew that developers agitated for more than 16GB for a while before they got it on laptops, but I had never encountered a market that chews through RAM like orchestral VI users. I do photo/video work for something like a living, and I've never needed more than 16GB, even working with multiple streams of 4k video (though I did need an eGPU for my 2018 Mac mini). Slotting an M1 mini into my life was easy.

That "prosumer" non-iMac with user-expandable RAM does start to look like VI-C's dream Mac, doesn't it? Just about any non-music user who wants big CPU power is probably going to want a commensurate GPU, but VI-C has plenty of people using stock 2018 Mac minis, anemic integrated graphics and all, with no real issues.

Does it seem like something Apple would make just for this specific audience? My gut says no, but the rumors of the product's existence persist. Who is its intended audience, assuming it's not "every Mac user on VI-C"? If it has a better GPU than the M1, photo and video people wouldn't complain - the M1's GPU is way better than Intel's integrated, but it's nowhere near AMD's offerings. RAM remains the big question, as only very specific audiences need more than the M1's max, so offering upgrades from that at exorbitant prices — and not allowing user upgradeability — does seem more likely than not.
 
This was the most shocking thing for me when I ventured into this world not quite a year ago: serious RAM usage. I knew that developers agitated for more than 16GB for a while before they got it on laptops, but I had never encountered a market that chews through RAM like orchestral VI users. I do photo/video work for something like a living, and I've never needed more than 16GB, even working with multiple streams of 4k video (though I did need an eGPU for my 2018 Mac mini). Slotting an M1 mini into my life was easy.

That "prosumer" non-iMac with user-expandable RAM does start to look like VI-C's dream Mac, doesn't it? Just about any non-music user who wants big CPU power is probably going to want a commensurate GPU, but VI-C has plenty of people using stock 2018 Mac minis, anemic integrated graphics and all, with no real issues.

Does it seem like something Apple would make just for this specific audience? My gut says no, but the rumors of the product's existence persist. Who is its intended audience, assuming it's not "every Mac user on VI-C"? If it has a better GPU than the M1, photo and video people wouldn't complain - the M1's GPU is way better than Intel's integrated, but it's nowhere near AMD's offerings. RAM remains the big question, as only very specific audiences need more than the M1's max, so offering upgrades from that at exorbitant prices — and not allowing user upgradeability — does seem more likely than not.
Agree with this.

I have it on good authority that at the forthcoming Monday meeting, Tim Cook will throw down to the Apple engineers and instruct them to design a machine specifically for VIC users, post-haste.

Jokes aside, my gut instinct like yours is that nothing is really going to change in the ram vs value department for VIC Mac users who prefer single machine workflows. If anything, Apple appear to be moving even further away from the expandable machine paradigm, bar the top end Mac Pro.

I expect the debates and arguments to rumble on into 2022 and beyond. 😂
 
This was the most shocking thing for me when I ventured into this world not quite a year ago: serious RAM usage. I knew that developers agitated for more than 16GB for a while before they got it on laptops, but I had never encountered a market that chews through RAM like orchestral VI users. I do photo/video work for something like a living, and I've never needed more than 16GB, even working with multiple streams of 4k video (though I did need an eGPU for my 2018 Mac mini). Slotting an M1 mini into my life was easy.

That "prosumer" non-iMac with user-expandable RAM does start to look like VI-C's dream Mac, doesn't it? Just about any non-music user who wants big CPU power is probably going to want a commensurate GPU, but VI-C has plenty of people using stock 2018 Mac minis, anemic integrated graphics and all, with no real issues.

Does it seem like something Apple would make just for this specific audience? My gut says no, but the rumors of the product's existence persist. Who is its intended audience, assuming it's not "every Mac user on VI-C"? If it has a better GPU than the M1, photo and video people wouldn't complain - the M1's GPU is way better than Intel's integrated, but it's nowhere near AMD's offerings. RAM remains the big question, as only very specific audiences need more than the M1's max, so offering upgrades from that at exorbitant prices — and not allowing user upgradeability — does seem more likely than not.
Don't developers need also a lot of RAM ? (I'm not in that business, just asking).
 
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