Massive X is Out!

C.R. Rivera

Popper @ his favorite toy.
Interesting... I checked on my mid 2011 iMac with 16 GB (High Sierra), and it reported support for AVX. After purchasing Massive X, it downloaded and ran fine. I would have thought a later-model iMac would support AVX. If you run the following command in the OS X Terminal app, it will tell you if you have AVX support: "sysctl -a | grep machdep.cpu.features" (no quotes). If AVX is supported, it will be returned in the subsequent list (and the version of AVX supported). That will tell you if your CPU can handle it. Have no clue how the version of OS X relates to AVX, if at all? Perhaps the version of OS X relates to Native Access support?
Thanks for the info. I did run that in the terminal and it seems it is AVX version 1.0. I will check now for a possible software update, or, make "kontakt" with NI to ask about this.:laugh:
 

ratherbirds

Active Member
It's cool to generate special effects, but: the programming of the panoramic is it only global or can it be done by osc, noise?
 

Prockamanisc

Senior Member
Also I'm quite sure NI did their market research and saw what percentage of 5,1 users make up their userbase, and made the call.
Unfortunately, I believe those results might be skewed towards teenage amateurs who are dabbling on MacBook Pros, and weighted away from professionals who've invested tons into workstation beasts. I'm just guessing, I really don't know, but it seems plausible.

Is there any way to "force" this to run on a Mac Pro 2012? My boss is one of those professionals with a lot invested into a workstation beast, and was totally blindsided by this AVX compatibility. Is there an extra bit of software we can run to trick the program into just using the computer's existing resources?
 

EvilDragon

KSP Wizard
There's no way to force it. If your CPU doesn't have AVX registers, the program that is written to depend on AVX without any failsafes would just not work completely. There's no "translation layer", so to speak.

It's like trying to make a V6 engine work like V12 engine. It just cannot happen without those extra 6 cillinders.
 

topaz

Member
I agree 100%, using data tracking to judge who is using 5.1 mac pros in professional studios that are more than likely offline backfired on NI this time.

When someone has 500+ vst's working great it's obvious who will get the blame.


Unfortunately, I believe those results might be skewed towards teenage amateurs who are dabbling on MacBook Pros, and weighted away from professionals who've invested tons into workstation beasts. I'm just guessing, I really don't know, but it seems plausible.

Is there any way to "force" this to run on a Mac Pro 2012? My boss is one of those professionals with a lot invested into a workstation beast, and was totally blindsided by this AVX compatibility. Is there an extra bit of software we can run to trick the program into just using the computer's existing resources?
 

EvilDragon

KSP Wizard
Yeah Apple should get all the blame because they didn't allow upgrades to AVX CPUs on 5,1s. Well, technically, Intel should get the blame because they changed the socket for Sandy Bridge Xeons, which actually made that upgrade impossible without a new motherboard/chipset. So yeah...

I'm sure you can understand that utilizing AVX brings a lot of benefits in (greatly) reduced CPU usage, which allows higher quality DSP to be done. At some point, you just have to progress, and there's never progress without risk.

I'm pretty sure that a non-AVX version of Massive X would kill those poor old Westmere Xeons.
 
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BezO

The Artisan
Oh shit! I'm in the process of setting up a 2019 iMac. And have a 2017 MBP. I don't know enough to interpret the provided document (I think that was this thread), but can't imagine 2017 & 2019 Mac releases wouldn't be capable. Can anyone confirm these are compatible?

I purchased the 12U update via 3rd party and am waiting for my serial number.
 

EvilDragon

KSP Wizard
Almost every CPU since 2011 can run it. You're good. 5,1 MP used CPUs from before 2011 that's why it's screwed.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
You keep speaking about it as if it has to be all one way or the other, which is a red herring EvilDragon. There is no reason whatsoever that NI couldn't have added AVX technology for computers with it and continued to support computers without it. NI jumped the gun on outmoding macs that are very much still alive and well in the mac pro audio community.

Regardless of the years behind them, simple truth is a lot of audio pros are still using macs without AVX. You think they are all going to get rid of their 5,1 MacPro just in order to run MassiveX? I don't think so...

I can live without it I have a lot of great synths that run just fine on my 5,1...but I'm just miffed they didn't make it more clear before I threw down for Komplete 12.

Nothing at all wrong with running CPU's from 2011, and by the way, the 2012 MacPro had the Xeon, which was sold after 2011, not before and many of those have since been upgraded with faster Xeons that were released by Intel in 2011, but weren't installed into computers until well after that. Its foolish to think that people with perfectly functional 5,1 MacPros should have to even think about changing their computer especially when the only real replacement is a hugely overpriced 2019 MacPro. 5,1's are not going away any time soon and NI will not hear the end of complaints from 5,1 owners related to MassiveX for at least a few more years. NI made this leap too soon. But to re-iterate, to say what I just said and others are trying to say is NOT to say that NI couldn't have supported the older CPU's and also supported AVX for computers that have it. Its not mutually exclusive.
 

EvilDragon

KSP Wizard
You think they are all going to get rid of their 5,1 MacPro just in order to run MassiveX? I don't think so...
No of course not. Neither does NI, I'd believe. They did their research and made the call and prioritized certain things over certain other things, in order to release it in time after two delays. It's a business decision. That's not to say that they won't consider SSE2 version some time later, but it's obviously not a huge priority (there's bigger fish to fry at the moment).

If 8 years is "too soon", I wonder when the right time would be. Never? Yeah, right.
 
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pmcrockett

Senior Member
NI looks like they're at least aware that people were unhappy with the lack of clear signaling about the AVX requirement out of the gate, because when I upgraded to Komplete 12 yesterday, a note specifically about Massive X requiring AVX came up during the purchasing process.
 

nordicguy

Active Member
V’got this 5,1 Tower we’r talking about.
Few months ago this dev launched this synth, its called Vaporizer 2
<https://www.vast-dynamics.com/>
Bought it without checking properly the system requirement.
In fact, I read it rapidly and saw the usual suspects, except for... AVX.
Couldn’t install! of course.
That was the first time I’v dealt with AVX mandatory support.
I wrote to the dev explaining him the situation and asking for a refund, as a favor since it was my bad, of course.
The guy was really kind and refund me right away.
He also took some time to give me some explanations about this AVX thing.
Also did some research trying to figure it out a bit.
Anyway.
Few days (1 or 2 weeks may be) later he wrote me back asking me to download a new version that didn’t need AVX to try it out.
It worked find on my system.
OK! We’r not talking about Massive X here.
Not at all.
But at the same time we’r also talking about a one man band here.
I hear you ED.
Massive X without AVX support will kill my CPU.
I’d just would like to add that every modern/demanding synths run pretty well on my system atm.
Don’t think I could run 5 Massive X instances at the same time, but not even one or two?
I deal with synths/computers since long enough that I know that at some point one need to update/upgrade/change the whole thing and figure out a different system.
No problem with that at all.
Though, I think that my 5,1 could make it for a while again.
YMMV.
Long post and just my 2 cents.
 
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Dewdman42

Senior Member
NI looks like they're at least aware that people were unhappy with the lack of clear signaling about the AVX requirement out of the gate, because when I upgraded to Komplete 12 yesterday, a note specifically about Massive X requiring AVX came up during the purchasing process.
That's good. If they had done that for me I would have canceled it. It was a major part of the value proposition.
 

Alex Fraser

Senior Member
Massive X is a mass market product. And the mass market is on MacBooks, iMacs, minis and PC. There’s a whole world of users outside of VI Control who don’t run 10 year old hardware.

Sorry guys. To argue that NI should cater for a tiny fraction of the userbase at the expense of everyone else is nuts.