March of the Dead

AlexanderSchiborr

Senior Member
Hello everybody,

This is my try on doing an evil-like darth vader march-thing. I did this basically out of rage because cubase messed up another project I was working on...
I hope you will enjoy!


best wishes
Jorgo
Well, I haven´t actually much time, so I keep my feedback quite compact short this time. First: I like some stuff in your track, for instance that marching feel and how your treat the different orchestral color palette, cliffhanger, decorational elements and nice massive buildups in the later parts. Chapeau! Nice! :) BUT: Overall I feel your track lacks of a strong thematic stuck in your brain idea and a structure which supports featuring such idea throughout the piece. Ecspecially when you speak of an influence like the Vader March which is in particular a stuck in your brain theme.

At some spots in your piece it starts to get confusing all over the place where you have 3-4 things ongoing which is chaotic and not well controlled like at 2:24 around. Less is more. Don´t get bored by your own melody, so that you have to pack on vertically everything else just for the sake to fill out your orchestration.

Some side note: Starting with the snare and then dropping it of at 21 seconds while short later thinning out the orchestration is a delicate questionable thing to do ecspecially direct in the beginning where you probably want to build up tension? I guess that was done intentionally but I would keep at least something from the snare and even if it is a 4 count beat or something. PS: Please work on the dynamics on your snare, they are very static.

Besides that your template has a cool sound!
 
Last edited:

Alatar

Active Member
Nice piece! Very versatile with different sounding sections.
A littlebit too fast, for my taste. But that's just me, I guess :)
 
OP
Jorgakis

Jorgakis

Active Member
Hey Jorgo!

If this is your way of "channelling" Cubase messin' up a project, then I wish you more messes! :P

Great track all-around :2thumbs:
Haha thanks! Yes maybe it should happen more often. Could have been more evil though, now that I re-listen...

Well, I haven´t actually much time, so I keep my feedback quite compact short this time. First: I like some stuff in your track, for instance that marching feel and how your treat the different orchestral color palette, cliffhanger, decorational elements and nice massive buildups in the later parts. Chapeau! Nice! :) BUT: Overall I feel your track lacks of a strong thematic stuck in your brain idea and a structure which supports featuring such idea throughout the piece. Ecspecially when you speak of an influence like the Vader March which is in particular a stuck in your brain theme.

At some spots in your piece it starts to get confusing all over the place where you have 3-4 things ongoing which is chaotic and not well controlled like at 2:24 around. Less is more. Don´t get bored by your own melody, so that you have to pack on vertically everything else just for the sake to fill out your orchestration.

Some side note: Starting with the snare and then dropping it of at 21 seconds while short later thinning out the orchestration is a delicate questionable thing to do ecspecially direct in the beginning where you probably want to build up tension? I guess that was done intentionally but I would keep at least something from the snare and even if it is a 4 count beat or something. PS: Please work on the dynamics on your snare, they are very static.

Besides that your template has a cool sound!
Hey, thank you Alex, even if you didn't have the time I appreciate the still detailed analysis.

You pretty much revealed my weakness I think. I was not quiet sure to which extent it is ok to bring some new "fill-in" material, so sometimes I bring in some new ideas, and this mind sound confusing. I'm also bored pretty fast by the theme (although for you it mind not sound that simple). But I'll try to do some more unisono confirmation of the theme, not to drowning it with too many ornaments. I guess that's what you meant?

The theme is a bit quirky but I wanted to make sure that there is no copying. I thought it was ok though, I listen to some prokofiev he does this thing quiet often. (but yes, very much better!!!)

The snare is a really nice point, I changed it quiet often, at the beginning I was planing to leave it until the last minute:D. But now I know it was not that good of an idea. I had the same problem with my most recent track...Do you recommend to be more confident with a continuous percussion (maybe for other styles too)?
Sorry for the questions, again, thank you very much for your post!

Nice piece! Very versatile with different sounding sections.
A littlebit too fast, for my taste. But that's just me, I guess :)
Hey, thanks! Not quiet sure, you could be right:D I'm open to any idea.
 

Kony

Bad ape
The theme is a bit quirky but I wanted to make sure that there is no copying.
I really like this - very nice and well executed idea. Regarding your fear of being copied, you should compose what you want without any fear, ie don't hold anything back like a strong theme which would (as Alexander mentioned) have made this a memorable standout track. I still liked this very much, but it's just not memorable....
 

AlexanderSchiborr

Senior Member
Look, Guys. I have a question to you all: Can someone of you hum that initial idea (melody on the horns) after having the first listen, maybe even if you have a listen to it a couple of times? I have my hard times with it and I say here: It doesn´t get stuck into my brain for such reason plus it is not really repurposed after that or even repeated. So what I miss here is a coherent line of evolving that idea. I like the track too for several other reasons like the orchestration etc, but is it memorable? I would say.. really not at all. And when someone writes in his initial post "This is my try on doing an evil-like darth vader march-thing" then I guess he has to consider that besides that it is an "evil tune" that it is also a very catchy tune with strong chord progressions and a tendency of strong resolution and that is what I miss here. I don´t say that this is an easy thing to do. I am just making an observation to help the guy maybe to improve his tries on doing such things. At least this is just my opinion of course.
And I don´t mean here that it has to be always like that catchy thing, but at least I need a melody which evolves and leads me somewhere for a reason. I don´t know maybe I am too picky sometimes. How do you guys see that matter?
 
Last edited:

novaburst

Senior Member
How do you guys see that matter?
I do believe that this V I Control Forum is perhaps the reason why so many composers have become so good at there work,

I am always taking note at your (tutorials), teachings,Advice, and understanding of musical principal, I have said it before and i will say it again I have been to university for music theory.

But what i have learned on this forum is so much better and clearer and easy to grasp.

If you and others stopped helping and giving advice then this forum would have lost a gold nugget,

I have witnessed people on utube testify about this forum how they became very good composers because of the help and advice they have received from this forum.

When any one uploads there piece of music on this forum it is probably the best thing they could have done, we need to put our work, production, compositions, through stress, and allow the more deeper and experience to give there take on it, its the only way our music will get toned up and muscle.

We can not get by with people patting us on the back and saying what a great piece, well done, when there is so much that needs doing to make our piece better.

We need the teachers, advice, we need to be told where we went wrong. This forum is not the crowd the crowd is the sound cloud, the utubes, the twitter, the big wide web, i would hate to put my pieces out there with out the knowledge that my piece is not very well put together,

I would at least like the chance to put things right, and get good advice and hear what the more experience have to say about it.

Are we not all striving to get better, on to perfection, or is it the attitude any thing will do and just be nice to me, i am sure i know what one we will choose.

So to all the them that give advice, that help us out of bad compositions, that make us better composers, that give constructive teaching.

we need you, and with out you many would be lost or would need to pay a lot of money for the same type of advice so please dont stop please keep on listening to our music pick it apart, turn it up side down, tell us where we are going wrong

we need you...............
 

Kony

Bad ape
I had to pick up my jaw from the floor after I heard Hell in the Head
I'd really like to hear this Alexander - is there any chance you could please post a link?

I completely agree with Alexander's comment by the way. I think the March of the Dead piece is technically brilliant and has fantastic orchestration - but it is too busy and lacks a strong theme. Sorry if I'm repeating my earlier comment, just wanted to say that I appreciated and admired the skill involved in the piece but it would have been greatly enhanced by a more obvious thematic structure.
 

AlexanderSchiborr

Senior Member
I do believe that this V I Control Forum is perhaps the reason why so many composers have become so good at there work,

I am always taking note at your (tutorials), teachings,Advice, and understanding of musical principal, I have said it before and i will say it again I have been to university for music theory.

But what i have learned on this forum is so much better and clearer and easy to grasp.

If you and others stopped helping and giving advice then this forum would have lost a gold nugget,

I have witnessed people on utube testify about this forum how they became very good composers because of the help and advice they have received from this forum.

When any one uploads there piece of music on this forum it is probably the best thing they could have done, we need to put our work, production, compositions, through stress, and allow the more deeper and experience to give there take on it, its the only way our music will get toned up and muscle.

We can not get by with people patting us on the back and saying what a great piece, well done, when there is so much that needs doing to make our piece better.

We need the teachers, advice, we need to be told where we went wrong. This forum is not the crowd the crowd is the sound cloud, the utubes, the twitter, the big wide web, i would hate to put my pieces out there with out the knowledge that my piece is not very well put together,

I would at least like the chance to put things right, and get good advice and hear what the more experience have to say about it.

Are we not all striving to get better, on to perfection, or is it the attitude any thing will do and just be nice to me, i am sure i know what one we will choose.

So to all the them that give advice, that help us out of bad compositions, that make us better composers, that give constructive teaching.

we need you, and with out you many would be lost or would need to pay a lot of money for the same type of advice so please dont stop please keep on listening to our music pick it apart, turn it up side down, tell us where we are going wrong

we need you...............
One thing I know for sure and that is that I need you guys here in the forum to give me constructive feedback. You did in the past and I am grateful for that. With Jorgos Track: I think he has a very good sense for orchestration and he is able to create intense, dramatic moments. The track has also the right feel for that kind of vader marching thing. Also his use of colors is nice and he I can hear the he put a lot of effort to give the orchestra "life". That are indeed all positive things to mention.


Well... I sure can't hum my favorite piece of yours, Alexander! :grin:

I had to pick up my jaw from the floor after I heard Hell in the Head... not to mention going into a phase of "Why was I even born?!". A true masterpiece way beyond its time, if you ask me... But can I hum it? Nope. ;)

I do understand your point though, and sometimes this is exactly what makes someone stand above the others and become very famous.. But not all pieces need to be "catchy" to be good IMHO.

*Every point you make is very valid, though.. And I believe we are all in this to progress and learn from each other. You put a lot of time and effort in helping people here, and I for one thank you for doing so.
Yes, I remember this piece as it was created out of the idea to build up a new mockup and it was intentionally done like that. Yes, it doesn´t get into someones brain, not even mine although I wrote it. I even can´t recall how it sounds now. Look I think you should be aware of that matter and still you should be able to do both things as a composer or even better: be able to be dark and catchy and complex, but not complicated. Even if a melody isn´t very catchy or memorable or just an idea, repeating it makes the chance higher that somebody can relate to it.

I'd really like to hear this Alexander - is there any chance you could please post a link?

I completely agree with Alexander's comment by the way. I think the March of the Dead piece is technically brilliant and has fantastic orchestration - but it is too busy and lacks a strong theme. Sorry if I'm repeating my earlier comment, just wanted to say that I appreciated and admired the skill involved in the piece but it would have been greatly enhanced by a more obvious thematic structure.

Hi Kony,

I am not going to post a link here. I think we should keep concentrating on Jorgos track, it is jorgos thread and his music here. But If you like I can send you a pm, or just use the search function here, you will find the short demo track pretty quick. Overall I think I have also posted enough music so far here on Vi (recently a new track too), as I think there are other members here who deserve attention with their cool music and I am always interested to listen to their tracks and give them my opinion as long my time allows.
 
Last edited:

Kony

Bad ape
Hi Alexander, apologies for my faux pas - and to Jorgos! I did actually find it earlier and will comment on it elsewhere.
 
OP
Jorgakis

Jorgakis

Active Member
All I can say is thanks for the advice and I understand what Alexander means. Although it wasn't intended to be that catchy but rather have that evil feel, all bundled in a short piece of music. Nevertheless, I think catchiness is the hardest thing to do. Writing catchy or memorable tunes had always been a major task and priority to me but has faded away a bit when I started getting interested in orchestration and some more modern classical music. But, I see that if you have a rather odd theme it must be emphazised more.

I take Kony's thought seriously, too. Maybe I shouldn't have messed around too much with the theme and rather kept the initial idea that felt more natural.

Overall thanks for the advices, I'm really happy to have the chance to post my stuff and get some authentic feedback, I think it's the only source of competent feedback I can get right now.