Mac Pro late 2013

Discussion in 'PC/Mac Builders, Mods, Peripherals - New' started by fraz, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    Are HiDPI resolutions ultimately dependent on the OS? 'cause SwitchResX lets you put in custom resolutions that don't show up as HiDPI.

    Also, I'm not disappointed. I just have a 16:10 monitor in a 16:9 world. And I haven't seen a monitor that looks as good as this one, regardless of resolution.

    Also also, re: the startup progress bar, what I meant is that being able to start up from the recovery partition is the only reason I care; I can deal with using the control panel to select a different startup disk once every 14 months when I need to do that. :)
     
  2. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    The OS is a huge part of the equation as well as compliance by application software. On windows when you go into settings for the display, you choose a resolution and then you can choose a percentage for how to bump the size of fonts, windows, etc to be larger. That effectively puts windows in hidpi mode. On windows you can say 125%, 150%, etc as how much of a Hidpi magnification to use and it’s all happening in the OS.

    On OS X, they do something similar but present it differently. The default retina mode is 200% magnification. If you have a Retina display they hide all the details of what resolution the monitor actually is but they are using 200% magnification to create the higher fidelity, handled in the OS. Retina is just a branded name for hiDPI. There is no way on OS X to specify 150% or 125%, for example and I assume it’s just always 200% of whatever resolution your monitor is or that OS X thinks your monitor’s resolution is. If with the RX560 and SwitchResX you can fool OS X into thinking your monitor is 5k, then retina technology in OS X will magnify it at 200% down to 2560x1440 hiDPI. If it’s not working then either you don’t have switchresx configured right or else Mojave is getting smarter about knowing what resolution your monitor actually is and only allowing 200% of that, which is dissappointing if so. The only way to get the equivalent of windows’ 125% and 150% modes is to fake OS X into thinking your display is bigger then it is and then using 200% of that, which the OS does.

    Two things for you, when you create the larger resolution sizes you’re making them as “scaled” resolutions right? I assume so. The other thing is that when you upgraded to Mojave you might have turned off the mode for enabling the open ended hidpi stuff with non Apple branded retina monitors. Check out earlier posts where there are some links to articles for how to enable that via the command line and maybe you can get it turned back on somehow.
     
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  3. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    It has a 2560 x 1440 HiDPI setting.

    I have a 2560 x 1600 monitor.
     
  4. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    I thought you said earlier you didn’t. Sounds like you’re still good to go then
     
  5. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    Good to go at the regular standard DPI 2560 x 1600 resolution.

    2550 x 1440 HiDPI requires giving up about 1-3/4" of vertical screen estate, and the only benefit is when you zoom in. There's effectively no visible difference when you're not zoomed.

    But again, 3360 x 1890 HiDPI is a usable resolution for sequencing, and I was unable to do that without the RX 560. I haven't tried working at it for extended periods, but it's the difference between seeing 32 bars/57 tracks and 44 bars/70 tracks (the way I have Logic set up). For that it might be worth living with the black bands at the top and bottom of the screen.

    And it looks very good.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
  6. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    If you’re getting 3360x1890 hidpi then you’re system is handling hidpi fine I guess. It must mean you have a scaled resolution of 6720x3780 defined in switchresx.

    If that works then you ought to be able to define other resolutions in switchresx which will eliminate the black bands. But anyway you have a two monitor setup so who knows what OS X is doing. Q
     
  7. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    It is indeed, but there are also some silly resolutions as high as 7680 x 4320 - clearly intended to be halved for HiDPI - that are not scaled. So I don't think you can get SwitchResX to make HiDPI out of any old res.

    What would be bitchin' is a way to fool the system into thinking it has a Retina display attached in order to scale the fonts as you described.
     
  8. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    So there is nothing special about retina displays they are just high resolution displays and Apple keeps a list of which monitor model numbers meet their criteria as being a Retina display. When it detects you have a compatible monitor it enables the different control panel GUI.

    Switchresx definitely can create those scaled resolutions of just about any size you want, I thought you were already doing that. It depends on what your video card supports.

    I’m fact when you see that 2560x1440 hiDPI, that is because somewhere in switchresx you have 5120x2880 defined as a “scaled” resolution. There is an actual type of resolution setting in switchresx called “scaled”, and when you create those youbare halfway to having the hidpi setup you want.

    The other half is making sure OS X is configured to give you all those 200% hidpi resolutions based on the super big scaled resolutions defined in switchresx. There is a command line command to enable OS X to do that for you, or allegedly switchresx will do it for you. So you have to do those two things then you should in theory be able to setup hiDpi resolutions to any size and shape you want, but I can’t say more until I get my own rx580 to try it all out myself.

    I think you should be able to get the hidpi resolutions you want without black sidebars, bass on everything you’ve said. But it’s also possible that Mojave is interfereing.
     
  9. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    Another thing I noticed when I was at an Apple dealer trying out their 5k Retina display, is that in the control panel if you hold option while choosing “scaled resolutions”, then it actually shows exactly the same stuff the rest of us see without a branded retina monitor, a list of resolutions, some of them being hiDPI.

    There is nothing special about the retina branded monitor other then a simplified control panel GUI that is easier for most people to understand.

    But we don’t really know for sure what Mojave May May not enable with branded retina monitors. With the option key trick mentioned above I was able to spoof a retina 5k entirely out of retina mode.
     
  10. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    Well, before trying to get it to create 5120 x 3200 scaled I need to know what else to enter in those boxes.

    This seems like an easy way to create Great Whopping Clusterfongula.
     
  11. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    There is nothing else to enter. Sounds like you are not creating your custom resolutions correctly for this particular thing. You have to make sure they are "Scaled" resolutions.

    So open SwitchResX, and select your monitor on the left pane, you will see on the right, something like this:

    main.jpg

    Then look at the tabs for that panel on the right and select the one called "Custom Resolutions", which will then look something like this, except yours may have a lot more already added since you've been fiddling around:

    custom.jpg

    Click the + button at the bottom to add a new resolution. Now here's the part I think you've been missing: near the top you will see a control that says "custom resolution". Change that to "scaled Resolution". Then the editor will look like this:

    scaled.jpg

    Just enter the new size you want and save it.

    That's it.
     
  12. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    Or follow this link (and others) to see how to use SwitchResX for custom HiDPI modes:
     
  13. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    Right, right. The problem is that it doesn't show up as HiDPI. 5120 x 3200 is in the list of resolutions, but not as HiDPI.

    Actually, this screen dump was before I enabled it. The resolution works fine, but of course you need binoculars to use it - it's not scaled down to 2560 x 1600.

    Again, I suspect the 16:10 ratio of being the issue.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    Nick, when you add 5120x3200 you should now see 2560x1600HiDPI.

    However the fact that it says "inactive" on the far right means you didn't add is successfully. Perhaps you have that resolution already added as non-scaled or something.. Either that or RX560 doesn't support that size. I don't think its related to the ratio other then you need to add those desired resolutions correctly.
     
  15. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    There's no way to install it successfully. I've entered the command line thing to unlock the system, etc.

    That resolution isn't entered anywhere else - it just isn't happening unless there's some convoluted way to do that not in the documentation.
     
  16. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    Its possible the RX560 does not support that scaled resolution then, or perhaps there is a step you're missing in SwitchResX. Otherwise I'd suggest sending an email to the author of SwitchResX, he is very responsive. I think we've beaten this to death. Good luck.
     
  17. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    I finally got my RX580 and just wanted to report back about HiDPI with it.

    I also had problems getting SwitchResX to recognize larger scaled resolutions, they simply wouldn't stick. Not sure why. I gave up on it. I found a better solution that worked like a charm and I can create literally any HiDPI resolution I want, including both larger and smaller then native resolution, though the larger ones don't look good anyway.

    I used the following two tools:

    https://github.com/syscl/Enable-HiDPI-OSX

    http://avi.alkalay.net/software/RDM/

    The first is a command line script and it prompts you for the HiDPI resolutions you want which you add one at a time. If you run it once without any, it clears them all out.

    The second is a free tool called RDM which is basically a simple and free alternative to SwitchResX.

    I was able to get 4k resolution displayed on my 1920x1200 monitor. Can't read the fonts, but there it is...works. I was also abel to get 1920x1200HiDPI on this monitor. I think the native 1920x1200 looks just a tad cleaner then the HiDPI version, but not by much. If you get some zoom in advantage with the HiDPI version, then there you go. I was also able to add some other HiDPI modes below native, at 90%, 80%, 75%, etc.. and they all look better then the normal scaled down resolutions....so that's a win and look forward to using this with my soon to arrive 4k monitor.

    Here are screenshots of 5k, 4k, 1920x1200hidpi, 1920x1200native

    5k.jpg 4k.jpg 1920.hidpi.jpg 1920.native.jpg
    list.jpg
     
  18. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    My 32" 4k came in (LG 32MU99). All I can say is that 32" 4k at 3008x1692(hiDPI) is awesome. Clear as a bell and very retina-like, lots of real estate, not too small to see. I can definitely say that 32" 4k is the way to go, with HiDPI settings to zoom in just a little bit closer then native 4k, which at native resolutions is just a little too small to read at normal viewing distances.

    3200x1800(hiDPI) is also quite good if you sit a little closer. I have to wear progressive lenses glasses and at that resolution its too hard to move my head around and focus in on stuff, its a tad too small.

    3360x1890(hiDPI) also works, and that is definitely too small for me to read from 2-3 feet, but with some apps that use larger fonts or hardly any fonts, its quite clear and usable with more real estate, as is the native resolution 3840x2160. I have compared native resolution against 3840x2160(hiDPI) and the hiDPI version definitely works, but its ever so slightly less clear. I'd say only use if it you are getting some of the zoom advantage that Nick mentioned, but I'm not sure how he was experiencing that. In any case, I find native resolution to be way too small for normal use, the fonts are just tiny for reading email, etc. but if you want to look at a lot of tracks in LPX...it certainly is clear and sharp and lots of real estate...and its not hard to swap to different resolutions as needed.

    I find that for day to day normal use, 3008xx1692(HiDPI) is just about right from 2-3 feet away, possibly 3200x1800(HiDPI).

    Interestingly, 3008x1692 works out to 108ppi font sizing (after the hiDPI effect). 110ppi is generally known as the magic perfect size for normal and typical desktop use. Anything less than 110 will be just a little "larger" and easier to read from further away. Anything more will be tinier and hard to read without putting your face close to the monitor. I would agree with that general observation about 110, and what I can say is that a 32" 4k monitor running 3008x1692(hiDPI) is at around 108 and is just about right for typical desktop use. Looks great too. Very pleased.
     

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