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Loudness war even in film soundtracks 2019?

Oh like you’re gonna hear dither on or off in that track. ;)

I played with Xfer OTT on my drum buss, which is a free version of L3. It’s really fun. Even if you set the mix to 15% wet it really cracks the drum stem.
 
We do have to remember that Tom was a very big EDM producer in the middle of the loudness war, so i think he very much used to making bradwurst out of his tracks ;)
 
@SimonViklund thanks for posting this and the explanation. Whilst I understood the theory it was great to have someone put up a couple of examples. I also am new to production (though not to playing) and 'training' my ear to be more sensitive to hear these things.
 
An absolute must-see for anyone interested in mastering, loudness or getting your music be heard the right way on streaming sites:

The future of Mastering

Went here just to post this.

Isn't it so funny and f***ing poetic?
47.gif
All that over-compression madness for the maximum loudness made the old more dynamic records actually sound louder.
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Sooooooo good to know you can, and probably should, have nicely dynamic music in this day and age. Limiting and compression should be seen as a stylistic choice and not a loudness weapon.

With that example of his, how limiters crunch the sound awfully, I'm glad to know I don't have to use them at all while mastering, actually. I know I will be using L3 for achieving some specific sound I'm after while mixing, but there's no need to master-squash mixes, I don't think I'll cut even 1 db when finalizing a piece now, so it doesn't introduce those foul artefacts... Which will be introduced by every platform while downgrading your wav to 128 mp3 anyway. :roflmao:
 
Went here just to post this.

Isn't it so funny and f***ing poetic?
47.gif
All that over-compression madness for the maximum loudness made the old more dynamic records actually sound louder.
3.gif



Sooooooo good to know you can, and probably should, have nicely dynamic music in this day and age. Limiting and compression should be seen as a stylistic choice and not a loudness weapon.

With that example of his, how limiters crunch the sound awfully, I'm glad to know I don't have to use them at all while mastering, actually. I know I will be using L3 for achieving some specific sound I'm after while mixing, but there's no need to master-squash mixes, I don't think I'll cut even 1 db when finalizing a piece now, so it doesn't introduce those foul artefacts... Which will be introduced by every platform while downgrading your wav to 128 mp3 anyway. :roflmao:
Thanks for summarizing it :)
I was being too lazy too watch the whole video ;)

I too use the L3 to "clean" the master. However it sounds digital (for whatever it means) past a certain point, and more modern alternatives have been proposed in this thread: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/alternatives-to-waves.90086/ . I still need to check them out.
 
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If I listen to any of his YT content (he mixed), it is saturated, VERY bright and kind of grating. I think he is a talented composer, but not everybody should mix their own stuff. When I do watch his channel, it's definitely not for audio tips, but I enjoy his openness about his workflow, the passion he has for music and great new sounds and his next-level synth collection doesn't bother hurt either. In terms of the loudness, it always comes down to fear. Fear that if you aren't louder (or often brighter) the average joe won't feel it. This seems foolish at first blush, but I see how many artists get uncomfortable at mastering time after they have stated "we don't care about loudness" and then quietly want it at -9 LUFS. It seems to be more prevalent in more aggressive genres, and I think film composers fall into similar traps based on their genre.

JXL is a gracious guy from what I can tell, with a pretty level head and sincerely seems to like sharing-- so I can forgive him for the grating mixes.
 
Fear that if you aren't louder (or often brighter) the average joe won't feel it. This seems foolish at first blush, but I see how many artists get uncomfortable at mastering time after they have stated "we don't care about loudness" and then quietly want it at -9 LUFS. It seems to be more prevalent in more aggressive genres, and I think film composers fall into similar traps based on their genre.

Sadly this it not just a misconception that is causing fear. It is a very real thing that people gravitate more to the "louder" thing and more quickly leave the quieter one. But, like Silverman says in that video, loudness normalization can flip the scenario about what feels louder, and arguably it flips in a positive way, where the feeling of loudness depends on musical details like transients and timbre, instead of depending on which song can get the biggest digital RMS.
 
Thanks for summarizing it :)
I was being too lazy too watch the whole video ;)

I too use the L3 to "clean" the master. However it sounds digital (for whatever it means) past a certain point, and more modern alternatives have been proposed in this thread: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/alternatives-to-waves.90086/ . I still need to check them out.
You really should watch the video. :) My post was not much of a summarization but just a comment on it. What I didn't mention was the main point, that levels and loudness are two different things and that by all those platforms introducing normalization at like -14 LUFS (or whatever), they actually made compressed music less loud, because at the same LUFS level, more dynamic music has higher peaks than over-compressed pieces. Now you don't have to watch the video. :laugh:

I don't use L3 for mastering because the multiband nature changes a lot of balance you create in the mix. To cut off the peaks, it's better to use normal 1 band limiter, but as you see, you don't have to do it at all. As I said, I use L3 only when mixing, basically as an ultra-multi-band-compressor, when I want more tight rather hyped sound.
 
And then, there are people like me how sometimes have a hard time to even reach those -14 LUFS...
I can't stand it at all if my dynamics are being audibly crushed by a "master" limiter.
 
I mix and master all to -23 LUFS -1dB Peak for Picture. The last documentary sounds really good without any over compression:
https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/076599-000-A/deutschland-bei-nacht/
 


Really strange "sizzling" noise here.
Is it just me or is that also clipping? Right at 6:00


Wow. I always felt like if I delivered something like that for trailers, the studio would cut my head off. Another irrational anxiety to cross off my list :rofl:
 
I don't use L3 for mastering because the multiband nature changes a lot of balance you create in the mix. To cut off the peaks, it's better to use normal 1 band limiter, but as you see, you don't have to do it at all. As I said, I use L3 only when mixing, basically as an ultra-multi-band-compressor, when I want more tight rather hyped sound.
Then we mostly agree.
 
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