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LogicPro + VEP and AU3

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Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
what AU3/audio ports bug are you referring to?

AU3 templates were working fine for me before with the previous VEP7. ??
 

kmaster

Now in LA: let's get coffee!
what AU3/audio ports bug are you referring to?

AU3 templates were working fine for me before with the previous VEP7. ??
Not in 10.4.5 they weren't -

yea I agree, 10.4.5 broke the AU3 plugin period. Particularly what I think it broke is not hte plugin as much as the template we are supposed to use. I think 10.4.5 broke many existing templates and project files becuase of the way they are handling the 1000 channels. Now it creates the underlying inst object on demand...and somehow that has broken things. Im getting wierd results when I use existing templates. If you start an empty project and load the AU3 plugin then it seems to work properly.

Update: Changing the VEP preferences to 50 audio outputs seems to get the Au3 plugin working again in LPX 10.4.5
Thus, the new bug fix:

Screen Shot 2019-07-07 at 12.32.46 PM.png

So that officially takes care of that issue.

Are there any other issues that anybody has noticed?
 
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Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
That's interesting. i didn't know about the crashing, they have not been crashing for me. I did have weird problems though if audio outputs was not set high enough, but once i set that high enough it was all working fine.

Glad to hear they fixed that!
 
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garyhiebner

Active Member
So I finally got AU3+VEP+Logic working. Quick question with using the VSL Beta and setting up your instruments, how do you send volume amounts from your tracks in Logic to VEP instruments in the Mixer. I thought if I sent a CC7 MIDI volume message from a track in Logic to VEP, that Instrument channel's volume would change as well. But it seems you can have individual CC7 volume midi messages sent to VEP. Seems like the Logic Multitimbral instrument can only store one CC7 volume change. Even though it is multimbral.

This was quite easy in Cubase. You'd simply just draw in a CC7 volume change and it would be sent to the instrument on that port and MIDI channel.

Am I missing something here in Logic?
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Yes CC7 works as expected. You are probably not sending CC7 when you think you are. What are you trying to use to send CC7?

Note that the volume slider on the track arrange page is not CC7. That is the connected to the mixer fader for the entire VEP instance (the audio coming back to LPX).

Note that when you enable automation on the track, there is a parameter called "Volume", that is not CC7 that is the same as above, the channel fader...and all the tracks are attached to the same volume fader by the way.

In the the piano roll editor there is automation also, and that is where you can do CC7 automation for each track or region.

automation.jpg
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Another way you can do it is to use VEP7 automation mapping, and then you can have an automation lane in LPX that connects to the fader in VEP7 for any channel you want. But you have to manually setup the automation mapping for that. It ends up looking like this in LPX:

faderauto.jpg


PS - one of the advantages of using environment multi-instruments as the wrapper around the mixer channels...as suggested by others, is that then the track fader actually effects CC7 and you can automate CC7 as a track lane, ends up looking like this:

midiauto.jpg

Pros and cons either way. When you set it up with the midi multi-instruments then you have more direct access to the CC7 controller of the instrument on the channel, but you lose access from the track lanes there in LPX to the non-midi mappable automation as described above, such as the VEP mixer fader or other non-midi parameters within your instrument.

Also notice if you look carefully, the volume fader in VEP7, has MUCH more resolution then CC7. CC7 only has 128 possible values, while the VEP7 mixer fader has more resolution and is represented as an actual DB value in steps of .1 DB from -69.1 to +6 db, so that is something like 700-800 possible volume level values., rather than meaningless CC7 values from 0-127

confused yet?

My preference is to map to the VEP7 mixer fader using the automation mapping. If you want to actually automate the CC7 controller of the instrument beyond that (and sometimes you very well might do both), do it in the piano roll or step editor section of LPX, rather then in a track lane.
 
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garyhiebner

Active Member
Yeah I think I will map to VEPro's automated volumes, cos I was setting it to MIDI Volume CC7 in the automation on the region, not the track volume and still wasn't sending volume back to the instruments right
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
CC7 messages will go through through to the instrument listening on the port and channel. If that instruments responds to CC7 messages for volume, which is usually the case, then it should work. If you were using Region automation and actual MIDI volume, then I don't know why it wasn't working for you, it works for me here, I only tried on port 1, maybe I will try some more tests on other ports to make sure its not a bug.
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Yea Region automation of CC7 works for me on port 2 also. Not sure why it wasn't for you.

Anyway, using the VEP mixer automation is probably a better way to go, but ultimately you will need and want to send CC's across to VEP, so guess you better figure that out.
 

garyhiebner

Active Member
Yea Region automation of CC7 works for me on port 2 also. Not sure why it wasn't for you.

Anyway, using the VEP mixer automation is probably a better way to go, but ultimately you will need and want to send CC's across to VEP, so guess you better figure that out.
So I tried to VEP Volume automation mapping. But when I choose this and draw in some automation its automating the volume on the instrument, not the volume fader of the VEP instrument. Is there a way to do this? Cos I want to be able to see the level amounts through the mix in Vepro, and not have to jump to each Volume CC7 on each Kontakt instance
 

A.G

Active Member
But when I choose this and draw in some automation its automating the volume on the instrument, not the volume fader of the VEP instrument.
Go to the Logic Project Settings => MIDI => General and deselect the "Control Change 7/10" checkbox.
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
I thought the purpose of that preference was to determine how CC7 and CC10 will effect the LogicPro mixer... not really related to VEP mixer as far as I can see.

This is how it works for me @garyheibner.

  1. In VEP7, create a channel and put some instrument on it.

    kontakt.jpg

  2. Note the instrument is on VEP channel 2. Go to the automation pane and setup an automation parameter that points to volume on channel 2:

    automap.jpg

  3. Go back to LPX, In this case we're talking about the track in Port 1, channel 1, so go to automation mode and configure that track for controlling the above automation map that was just setup.

    lane.jpg

  4. Draw in some automation on the lane.

    curve.jpg

That's it, press play and watch the VEP mixer fader move around.
 

A.G

Active Member
I thought the purpose of that preference was to determine how CC7 and CC10 will effect the LogicPro mixer... not really related to VEP mixer as far as I can see.
Your thought is not correct. Here are the rules:
• If the Logic Project Settings =>MIDI CC7/CC10 checkbox is enabled then CC7 & CC10 affect the Logic Channel Strip Volume/Pan. In this case CC7 & CC10 are blocked and cannot travel to the Software Instrument (old Logic behavior).
• If the CC7/CC10 checkbox is disabled then CC7 & CC10 can travel to the Software Instrument.
In this case CC7/10 do not affect the Logic Channel strip Volume/Pan.
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
That's what I just said, so my thought was "correct"

he is not trying to send CC7 to VEP at this point he is trying to automate the VEP mixer.
 

garyhiebner

Active Member
I thought the purpose of that preference was to determine how CC7 and CC10 will effect the LogicPro mixer... not really related to VEP mixer as far as I can see.

This is how it works for me @garyheibner.

  1. In VEP7, create a channel and put some instrument on it.

    View attachment 21063

  2. Note the instrument is on VEP channel 2. Go to the automation pane and setup an automation parameter that points to volume on channel 2:

    View attachment 21064

  3. Go back to LPX, In this case we're talking about the track in Port 1, channel 1, so go to automation mode and configure that track for controlling the above automation map that was just setup.

    View attachment 21065

  4. Draw in some automation on the lane.

    View attachment 21066

That's it, press play and watch the VEP mixer fader move around.
Yeah that's exactly what I did, but its moving the Volume fader in Kontakt, not the VEP volume fader. Very strange
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Not sure, maybe send me your project and I'll have a look at them to see what is getting mixed up.

The above steps should not effect Kontakt's volume level.

Make sure you look at that automation mapping step exactly, to choose the correct parameter to automate...which is the channel volume. Do NOT use anything under the "kontakt" instrument submenu as shown here:

two.jpg



Rather it should be this one, which refers to the channel fader:

one.jpg
 
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OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
And in logic make sure to also not choose a mapped parameter from inside the kontakt instrument, but rather the above mentioned channel volume parameter.. I relabeled the VEP channel to try to make this more clear

lpx.jpg
 
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A.G

Active Member
Yeah that's exactly what I did, but its moving the Volume fader in Kontakt, not the VEP volume fader. Very strange
I provide a complete "Learning" procedure in the animated gif below.
CC7 automates the Kontakt Ch1. fader at first. After the VEP Instrument Volume learning CC7 affects both faders (maybe there is a solution) - I use the VEP Multi KSP "Volume/Pan" filter button in the Video. You can use some neutral CC# such as CC13 for example to "Learn" the VEP Instrument Volume etc.

 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
@garyheibner, BTW the instructions I gave above should be using the parameters tab on the VEP automation pane....NOT the midi controllers tab.
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Figured out a pretty easy way to setup 127 tracks feeding into VEP AU3 without having to start out with one of the available templates; and without having to use the LogicPro Environment or even think about it!

This is so easy, a very large empty template could be created in a few minutes, or you could just easily create VEP tracks on demand as needed in LogicPro without starting in a large template. Add VEP tracks to existing projects, for example.

Thanks to debudde on the VSL forum for helping me figure this out (https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t52861-Building-LogicPro-AU3-templates-from-scratch#post286685).

  1. Start by using the Track->New Tracks menu command to pull up the new Tracks wizard. Create a new instrument track with VEP AU3. Make sure to check the multi-timbral checkbox. This could be configured up to 16 parts but for the sake of learning right now, specify just 1 part.

    newtracks.jpg

  2. Select the track header for the track just created. Select Track->Other->New Track with Next Channel (ctrl-return) to duplicate the track on midi channel 2. Do this 15 times until you have 16 total tracks, the last one being midi channel 16.

    last.jpg

  3. Select the last track that is on midi channel 16. Go to the track inspector on the left and configure the port and midi channel to port=2, channel=1.

    changeport.jpg

  4. The track label should change a bit to indicate its now on midi channel 1.

    changed.jpg

  5. Now select the track above that one, which is currently channel 15 and select Track-Other->New Track with Next Channel (ctrl-return), to create a new track for channel 16.

    newlast.jpg

  6. Now select the last track again, the one that is port 2, channel 1. Now you can repeat steps 2-5 above to create 15 more tracks for port 2.

  7. You can repeat the above steps until you get to port 8, channel15, you can't go above that as LPX is currently limited to 127 midi channels per AU3 plugin. After that if you want more tracks, you can start at Step#1 above to create a new VEP AU3 plugin for a new VEP instance and repeat all steps to create up to 127 more tracks, etc..
 
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