What's new

LogicPro + VEP and AU3

agarner32

Active Member
A big thanks to Dewdman42 for all this work. All I actually did was the tedious job of assigning MIDI channels per his instructions - grunt work! I did not do any actual brain work that's for sure. About all I can do in Logic is open it at this point.
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
If 1270 tracks is not enough, Here are steps to expand the above template, you will have to get your hands dirty a little bit in the environment, but it shouldn't be too bad.

This may require a few posts due to all the pictures..
  1. Start out with the template, open the MIDI environment. Navigate to the last layer, for now called "VEP 10".

  2. From the environment's Options menu choose Import Environment->Layer.

    import.jpg

  3. You will be given a dialog to find a logic project to import the layer from. Go find this template project. You will see a dialog box confirming the import. There is a field to specify the layer to import. Choose one of the VEP layers, in this case we'll use VEP 10.

    lastlayer.jpg

  4. A new layer will be added to your LPX project with a duplicate name of VEP10. So let's rename it, use the Layer control of the environment to choose the VEP10 layer and then the same control to rename it. Let's call it something original like VEP 11.

    rename.jpg
    rename2.jpg

This concludes Part 1.... more in next post....
 
Last edited:
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
continued from last post....

  1. Now make sure VEP11 is the current layer in the environment and do a SELECT ALL from the Environment edit menu. This will select all objects in the layer, their labels will turn blue. Note that all the objects on this layer are configured to use Inst10, we will change it to use the next available unused instrument channel, in this case Inst11.

    inst10.jpg inst11.jpg

  2. The above operation unfortunately changes all the midi channel assignments to channel 11 also, we will fix that later.

  3. Now go to the normal mixer window, you will see that a new channel strip has shown up next to VEP10. It does not have a VEP plugin yet, so add one instance of the VEP AU3 plugin there and rename the channel strip if you like.

    channelbefore.jpg channelafter.jpg

  4. The first channel strip object on this layer is also named VEP10. Let's rename it as VEP11 now. Select that channel strip object and edit its name in the inspector to the left.

    first.jpg

This concludes this section. More in the next post. Note at this point its mostly ready to add new tracks, but note that the midi channel assignments are still wrong, we'll fix that in the next section.
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Continued from last post...

  1. Let's create some tracks now... Get the arranger window and the environment window side by side on your display, more or less like this:

    sidebyside.jpg

  2. Scroll the arranger track list to the bottom so that you can see some blank space below the last track header. This is where we are going to add new tracks and we will be doing it in a careful way to make sure the correct ordering is preserved. Now select the top row of 16 channel strips in the environment window by dragging a lasso around them. Their labels will turn blue.

    selected.jpg

  3. Now drag these selected items over to the arrange window in that blank space below the last track header. You will see a yellow grid appear there, indicating that the tracks are going to end up there. Release the mouse button. You will be given a confirmation dialog to create the tracks, click Create.

    yellowgrid.jpg

  4. Now scroll the track-list to the bottom again and go back to the environment, select the next row of 16 channel strips by dragging the lasso around them and drag them to the empty area at the bottom of the track-list to create 16 more tracks. Repeat this for all 8 rows of channel strips in the environment window.

  5. You should now have 127 new tracks, they are all pointing to the 127 environment objects in the environment layer called VEP11, using Inst11 as the instrument channel. The midi channels are still incorrect, but the port assignments should be ok.

  6. At this point there is something weird about LogicPro after doing this drag operation the track-list is in a weird state with multiple selected tracks and I can't figure out how to correct it, so save the project, close it and reopen it to reset the state of LogicPro to normal

  7. If you desire to group these 127 new tracks into a folder, then select them all and create a track stack and name it VEP11 if you wish.

  8. Unfortunately, all 127 tracks have been tagged as midi channel 11 (in this case) and there is no way I know of to avoid that. So now you will need to go through every single track one by one and set the midi channel to the appropriate channel. You do this by selecting the track header and use the track properties in the inspector on the left.

    midichannel.jpg

    The midi channel and port most likely should match the track name when you are done. In the end you should end up with 127 tracks that are spread across 8 ports, channels 1-16, except port 8 only has 15 midi channels.
That's it, it should be ready to use with 127 additional tracks into a new VEP instance.

LogicPro does some squirely things with the track names sometimes but you can get through it, just name the tracks how you want and set the midi channel and ports to whatever you want and it should all function fine. You can reorganize them however you like too, they don't have to be in folders the same as the template, just move them around freely.
 
Last edited:

dgburns

summer of pickles and IPA beer
@Dewdman42 so any reason why you aren’t just connecting a multimidi object to each ‘port’ . Yes I know there are some downsides, but it would be so much less ‘environment’ screen real estate, not to mention so much less work. imho.
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Absolutely. The operation of tracks and mixer functions completely differently when you use environment instrument and multi-instrument objects. For many people this is not the preferred approach. The way this is done is how Apple handles Multi-timbral instruments, and also how VSL arranged the templates, which I have merely expanded upon.

There are pros and cons to using multi-instruments. It turns all the tracks into genuine midi tracks, which some people prefer and other people get confused. I personally like that the mute/solo buttons function as midi mute/solo rather then the brain dead way mute/solo work on normal multi-timbral instruments (globally for the instrument). Same for the fader on the track header, which becomes a CC7 fader with this approach.

I think I might make this variation and people can decide for themselves which way they'd rather work. In the future I hope that Apple is going to improve LPX to be more convenient working with Multi-timbral instruments their way...without having to mess around in the environment. But their way will be with a buzzillion of those channel strips I imagine, not that we care if LPX is managing it for us.
 
Last edited:
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
So actually you got me thinking about it. There would only need to be one channel strip per AU3 port, combined with a midi multi-instrument. And yes this would clean up the environment a lot. This is interesting and something I will play around with as another alternative. Not everyone likes using midi tracks that way.

alternative.jpg
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
@dgburns, thanks for the idea I'm going to make a template based that way all the way through for comparison.

First impression, one thing that is less then ideal is that when the tracks are based on multi-instruments, the AU3 port parameter disappears from the track inspector. This doesn't matter if you use the template exactly as is, but if you ever want to easily reroute tracks to a different port and channel you have to go into the environment or use reassign to get the track pointing to the right port/channel.

The existing way, using the channel strips directly to the tracks, they can configure each one to be whatever port/channel they want without going into the environment.

Anyway, when I get some more time I will make a complete template with 1270 tracks using the multi-instrument approach and everyone can choose whatever they prefer. I actually do like using old-school midi tracks.

Oh another thing that just occurred to me, with the old-school multi-instruments, bouncing tracks is a P-I-T-A. Its really easy with the AU3 channel strips and non-real time too.
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
alright, per @dgburns suggestion, here is a version of the template with midi multi-instruments as the track assignments. Please let us know which you prefer. There are pros and cons

  1. Midi tracks can't be bounced without a lot of hassle. Multi-timbral version can be bounced even in non-realtime, very easily.

  2. Midi tracks have better mute/solo buttons and track fader that effect midi rather then audio, while the multi-timbral track controls are global for the whole instrument, which is useless.

  3. Its definitely easier to expand that MIDI version if you want to make a template bigger then 1270 tracks.

  4. There is MIDI mixer which you might find useful for controlling various CC controls if you use the MIDI version of the template

  5. The MIDI approach is not how Apple is currently handling multi-timbral instruments, that is the so called "old-school" approach. The original template i made is based on Apple's current approach to handling Multi-timbral instruments and the way VSL also setup their initial AU3 templates.

  6. Probably more pros and cons that some of you will think of. The entire interaction is different each way which can be confusing for some. Pick the way that makes sense for you and use it, I don't see a clear winner either way.
PS - after trying it for a bit I can honestly say I don't like working with the midi multi-instruments at all, much prefer using the original multi-timbral template (the one without the word MIDI in the name).
 

Attachments

Last edited:

dgburns

summer of pickles and IPA beer
alright, per @dgburns suggestion, here is a version of the template with midi multi-instruments as the track assignments. Please let us know which you prefer. There are pros and cons

  1. Midi tracks can't be bounced without a lot of hassle. Multi-timbral version can be bounced even in non-realtime, very easily.

  2. Midi tracks have better mute/solo buttons and track fader that effect midi rather then audio, while the multi-timbral track controls are global for the whole instrument, which is useless.

  3. Its definitely easier to expand that MIDI version if you want to make a template bigger then 1270 tracks.

  4. There is MIDI mixer which you might find useful for controlling various CC controls if you use the MIDI version of the template

  5. The MIDI approach is not how Apple is currently handling multi-timbral instruments, that is the so called "old-school" approach. The original template i made is based on Apple's current approach to handling Multi-timbral instruments and the way VSL also setup their initial AU3 templates.

  6. Probably more pros and cons that some of you will think of. The entire interaction is different each way which can be confusing for some. Pick the way that makes sense for you and use it, I don't see a clear winner either way.
PS - after trying it for a bit I can honestly say I don't like working with the midi multi-instruments at all, much prefer using the original multi-timbral template (the one without the word MIDI in the name).
One REALLY great thing about using multi midi objects is that you can populate tracks without cabling them to actual intruments. In theory you could populate every conceivable lib you own without much overhead inside Logic. Also, you can use many single midi objects instead of the multi midi objects.

One other trick - move any midi up to the ‘mother’ instrument track and then do an offline bounce that way ( make sure the midi is flattened to the proper midi channel ). So it is in fact possible to offline bounce using the multi-midi object approach, albeit one track at a time. But sure, not elegant.

Not pounding the table that everyone needs to work this way, but it’s damn convenient if you (like me) bounce out to stems in real time.

-edit-

This reminds me that we can grab an object in the environment and drag it into the arrange page and create tracks that way. You can populate the arrange page quickly with many tracks this way, fyi.
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
But in this case we’re using vep to host all the instruments so I don’t see any difference there or benefit to using midi tracks.
 

garyhiebner

Active Member
I'm having no luck with the AU3 Beta Template. I have Logic 10.4.4 installed on High Sierra, and have made sure VEPro 7 has the latest update installed.

But when I open up the AU3 beta template from the VSL site it doesn't find the VEPro plugin. Im guessing it's not finding the AU3 version of it. What am I doing wrong. Is there a step I have missed. Or should I try build it up from scratch instead of using the template.

How do you know you loading up an instance of AU3 instead of AU2?
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
It will be named like this in the plugin list:

au3.jpg

If you don't see it you might not have had it checked when installing VEP7
 

garyhiebner

Active Member
OK, yeah that is the problem. It didn't install AU3. So I went in and removed all the VEPro files and components so could do a fresh install. But when I do the instal, it doesn't give me the option to install AU3. It is greyed out, and skips it. But I'm meeting all the minimum requirements, which are High Sierra or higher, and Logic 10.4.4 Any idea why I cant install AU3?
 

garyhiebner

Active Member
You need High Sierra 10.13.6 or later OS to install AU3.
Thanks @A.G. Yeah I figured this out. ON the system requirements it just says 10.1 or higher. But I did the system upgrade to 10.3.6 and now all working. Thanks so much.

Figure it out cos I tried it on my MacBook and that was all working and then saw what the differences were, and saw that the MacBook was 10.13.6 while the iMac on 10.13.4. So after the update it is recognising AU3.
 

kmaster

Now in LA: let's get coffee!
VEP Update 7.0.851 from July 3 fixed the AU3/audio ports bug.

Does this fix the whole AU3 template thing? Or were there other problems noticed?
 
Top Bottom