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LogicPro + VEP and AU3

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Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
I prefer it anyway because I like my Logic project workflow to resemble composing on a full score page.
By that I assume you mean you want one track per instrument? You can do that without having to use one vep instance per instrument.
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Oh maybe you’re right! Paul mentioned something about not being able to do 768 channels, but maybe I misunderstood. Out of town for the rest of the week to try again after that
 

Nick Batzdorf

Moderator
Moderator
I haven’t tried the multi out yet. I will next week, out of town now. I was getting the orange button too before and now I’m not, not sure why but check the thing azeteg mentioned, it’s a column in the plugin manager window
The AU3 mode checkbox is supposed to be unchecked. That's what the VSL developer said a few weeks ago, anyway.
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Yea it didn’t work for me before either and this time it did and I have no idea why either.
 

Nick Batzdorf

Moderator
Moderator
And now it's not working.

I may have figured out some of it - you insert a 5.1 plug-in first, then it may work. But nah, not worth playing with.
 

Saxer

Senior Member
All I can say is that Peter Schwartz, George Leger III and I did extensive testing when it came out and we all concluded that VEP worked better with Logic using one instruments per instance.
That's my experience too but maybe this changes with AU3?
@Ashermusic Did you try the VEPro AU3 beta? Would be interesting if this will change the overall behaviour.
 

Soundhound

Senior Member
As far as CPU management, doesn't VEP use blocks of CPU (if that's a way to describe it) per instance? So for example if you have a few channels of CPU hungry instruments (looking at you Herr Kepler) in a single instance, you'll hit a wall faster than if you were using separate instances?
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
I can see all 48 ports (VE Pro limit) in Logic Pro. Do you have your VE Pro preferences set to 16 ports?
When you say you see 48 ports, where do you see them? I think maybe it does not work right if you try to use that completely. The VEp plugin might show 48 ports, but the Logic UI will not be showing you all 48 ports in the track inspector. it can only show up to 16 ports there as far as I can see.

In order to use this properly with more than 16 channels you have to use the AU3 templates that VSL provided, or else you have to manually create some objects in the environment yourself, which is essentially what they did in that template.

If you put the AU3 plug on the Inst1 channel, then you create a bunch of channel strip objets based on Inst1 and you can set the port and midi channel for each one. This is generally how multis are handled in LPX. However, right now the environment and the track inspector will only let you define ports 1-16.
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
And now it's not working.

I may have figured out some of it - you insert a 5.1 plug-in first, then it may work. But nah, not worth playing with.
Make sure you are using the AU3 templates as a starting point provided by VSL. They are acually using the multi-out version of the plugin already by default.
 
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azeteg

Active Member
As far as CPU management, doesn't VEP use blocks of CPU (if that's a way to describe it) per instance? So for example if you have a few channels of CPU hungry instruments (looking at you Herr Kepler) in a single instance, you'll hit a wall faster than if you were using separate instances?
VEP will distribute the load optimally within an instance, using the assigned threadcount. The secret sauce in the performance of VEP's audio engine lies in the audio graph's thread synchronization scheme.
 

dbudde

Member
When you say you see 48 ports, where do you see them? I think maybe it does not work right if you try to use that completely. The VEp plugin might show 48 ports, but the Logic UI will not be showing you all 48 ports in the track inspector. it can only show up to 16 ports there as far as I can see.

In order to use this properly with more than 16 channels you have to use the AU3 templates that VSL provided, or else you have to manually create some objects in the environment yourself, which is essentially what they did in that template.

If you put the AU3 plug on the Inst1 channel, then you create a bunch of channel strip objets based on Inst1 and you can set the port and midi channel for each one. This is generally how multis are handled in LPX. However, right now the environment and the track inspector will only let you define ports 1-16.
You're right about the multi version of VEP. I was using the stereo version and I can see all 48 ports in the Logic track inspector. I haven't really looked into all the issues using the multi.
 
OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Hmm, that's interesting. I'ma way from home and my main DAW machine, but here on my laptop (running High Sierra), I can't seem to see more then 16 ports available in either the track inspector or inside the enviornment when inspecting the channel strip objects. I wonder how you're getting 48 to show up? I'd be curious if they all work! Paul had mentioned in his video about AU3, that we would not be able to get 768 midi channels per instance for some reason.
 

azeteg

Active Member
Hmm, that's interesting. I'ma way from home and my main DAW machine, but here on my laptop (running High Sierra), I can't seem to see more then 16 ports available in either the track inspector or inside the enviornment when inspecting the channel strip objects. I wonder how you're getting 48 to show up? I'd be curious if they all work! Paul had mentioned in his video about AU3, that we would not be able to get 768 midi channels per instance for some reason.
There are internal limitations in Logic that makes it impossible to create more than 768 channels for one target object. One may set the port for a track to #48 - but you will not be able to assign anything more than 768 individual port/channel combinations.

EDIT: The max limit is 127 channels, not 768.
 
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OP
Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
I thought Paul said we could not get even 768, which is 16 channels x 48 ports; and I thought 768 was the max number of channels per instance in VEP period...across all DAW's. I may not be remembering correctly, but I thought LPX was even more limited then that as of now. I know for my part, here on my laptop I can only see 16 ports available in the LPX inspectors. Dbuddle says he sees 48 which is great news but I don't know why I can't see that. I don't have a VEP server on my laptop to be able to run it and see if changing the number of midi ports there would somehow reconfgure LPX to think there is more. I already tried changing the number of midi ports in the VEP plugin itself to 48, but still the LPX inspector shows a list of port 1-16 for each track/channel.
 

dbudde

Member
I thought Paul said we could not get even 768, which is 16 channels x 48 ports; and I thought 768 was the max number of channels per instance in VEP period...across all DAW's. I may not be remembering correctly, but I thought LPX was even more limited then that as of now. I know for my part, here on my laptop I can only see 16 ports available in the LPX inspectors. Dbuddle says he sees 48 which is great news but I don't know why I can't see that. I don't have a VEP server on my laptop to be able to run it and see if changing the number of midi ports there would somehow reconfgure LPX to think there is more. I already tried changing the number of midi ports in the VEP plugin itself to 48, but still the LPX inspector shows a list of port 1-16 for each track/channel.
As I mentioned in my initial post, I am running macOS Catalina. Maybe that is the difference.
 

azeteg

Active Member
I thought Paul said we could not get even 768, which is 16 channels x 48 ports; and I thought 768 was the max number of channels per instance in VEP period...across all DAW's. I may not be remembering correctly, but I thought LPX was even more limited then that as of now. I know for my part, here on my laptop I can only see 16 ports available in the LPX inspectors. Dbuddle says he sees 48 which is great news but I don't know why I can't see that. I don't have a VEP server on my laptop to be able to run it and see if changing the number of midi ports there would somehow reconfgure LPX to think there is more. I already tried changing the number of midi ports in the VEP plugin itself to 48, but still the LPX inspector shows a list of port 1-16 for each track/channel.
Ok - it looks like the absolute limit was 8 ports and 16 channels minus 1. In total 127 channels possible. Creating the object for port 8 and channel 16, causes the environment to break down, all channels losing their GUI.
 

Ashermusic

Senior Member
By that I assume you mean you want one track per instrument? You can do that without having to use one vep instance per instrument.
No I want one Channel Strip per instrument, not separate tracks feeding through the same one. Violinists in an orchestra don't sit on each others laps.
 

Ashermusic

Senior Member
That's my experience too but maybe this changes with AU3?
@Ashermusic Did you try the VEPro AU3 beta? Would be interesting if this will change the overall behaviour.
I tried an early beta and it totally screwed up my system in a way that Paul said didn't happen to anyone else :)

To be candid, I just don't really have a problem with having a bunch of separate VE Pro instances so while I don't rule out trying it, on my top 100 list of "ooh, I want this!" things its #347
 
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