LogicPro + VEP and AU3

studioj

Active Member
Interesting! I will keep a look out for this.

I think I was getting the illusion of hanging notes happening in the middle of nowhere only because cc11 had faded to 0, and didn't pop back up until I hit play, and so the note had been hanging the whole time I just wasn't hearing it.

ok I do maybe have a clue about why you've sometimes gotten hanging notes.

The way the articulationSet works is that it sends the keyswitch NoteOn....and it doesn't send the NoteOff right away, in fact it waits until there is a different articulation ID with a different keyswitch then it finally sends the NoteOff for the keyswitch. It basically means its as if the keyswitch is HELD DOWN for the duration of a sequence of notes that are using it. And I'm not sure what happens if you have some notes in there without articulationID, if it will continue to sustain that keyswitch note until there is a new keyswitch or what. But anyway, that is what the articulationSet does.

If some of your keyswitches are bleeding into other channel/ports and hitting real notes instead of keyswitches in the instrument, then they would be sustained (ie, hanging), until there is a new articulation keyswitch, then finally the note off would come through.

I think that is why you were getting hanging notes before. Not sure how that script will help you to prevent that, but anyway, maybe the above explanation will help you figure it out.
 

animatione

New Member
HELLO, is it well known issue? It is a disaster for me as I spent many many hours on my template!
Does VEP7 work Properly with th AU3 plugin? It seems it stops sending MIDI to the VEP after some time of playing! Is it any well known problem? I use Logic and VEP on another computer! Please desperately help! Then all I can do is to restart the VEP7 because it freezes it sometimes.
 

kmaster

Now in LA: let's get coffee!
HELLO, is it well known issue? It is a disaster for me as I spent many many hours on my template!
Does VEP7 work Properly with th AU3 plugin? It seems it stops sending MIDI to the VEP after some time of playing! Is it any well known problem? I use Logic and VEP on another computer! Please desperately help! Then all I can do is to restart the VEP7 because it freezes it sometimes.
At what frequency do you note this issue? Once an hour? Once a day? Once a week?
 
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Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
I haven't been having crash issues with the AU3, but I haven't been pushing it that hard either. It would be helpful if you can figure out the exact steps and/or plugins you're using when it happens.
 

rlw

Rod Wilson
I started building a template for Spitfire SSS Strings using VEP7 and Lemur for articulation and mic automation. In my template, I created separate outputs for Longs, Shorts and Legatos from VEP7 so that I could route to Aux Tracks and handle reverbs separately. One Issue I found when experimenting is that I can not freeze tracks. I have played around with bouncing a midi track in lieu of freezing however that has left me some issues. Because my projects get so large and I don't have enough slaves currently so I still need to use Track Freeze. Any ideas @Dewdman42 how I might handle this.
 
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Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Unfortunately Track Freeze only works with non-multi-timbral instrument tracks. That means one instrument per VEP instance. That is one argument in favor of using the single instrument per VEP instance approach, in order to use Track Freeze. There is no other way to use Track Freeze.

You can definitely bounce the tracks though. I haven't actually tried that with AU3 yet, so I'm not sure if it has to be real time bounce or can work non-real-time.

what issues are you running into when trying to bounce?
 

rlw

Rod Wilson
You can bounce but automation is an issue since volume on the midi track has no baring. I can put automation on the output track from VEP but the bounce will only record the output of the automation, you can't bring the automation over to the bounce easily. The bounce does not have to be realtime
 
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Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
I think most likely since the audio is coming back through AUX you have to do real time bounce. But I'm gonna try a test shortly
 
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Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
You can bounce but automation is an issue since volume on the midi track has no baring. I can put automation on the output track from VEP but the bounce will only record the output of the automation, you can't bring the automation over to the bounce easily
Yea, right. This is unfortunate problem due to some of LogicPro's limitations. A few suggestions. One is to use Vep7's automation mapping and control the VepPro mixer through automation from the source tracks.

Note that those are not technically "midi" tracks, they are multi-timbral instrument tracks. But anyway, as you said, they are in a way disconnected from the AUX returns. So either you have to make AUX tracks corresponding to the turns from VePro, and automate those...or else use VePro automation mapping to have your source track automation actually control the faders inside VePro.
 
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Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
The other thing you can do is to actually do a bounce the REALLY old school hard way...which is that you set up audio tracks that take their input from the AUX channels you're returning from VePro... and I think if you have automation on the AUX tracks...then that should bounce their results to the audio track. Kind of a PITA though. Its been a while since I bounced stuff, I can't remember if you can bounce AUX tracks more directly then that.. but that would get you done if the VePro automation mapping has any problems or you don't like working that way.
 
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Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
but I don't think you should have to do the old school way. there are several different ways to bounce multi-timbral instruments including the AUX returns, so its not clear exactly to me what problem you're having with that...but anyway, maybe the VePro automation mapping will work if you aren't able to sort that out.
 

rlw

Rod Wilson
but I don't think you should have to do the old school way. there are several different ways to bounce multi-timbral instruments including the AUX returns, so its not clear exactly to me what problem you're having with that...but anyway, maybe the VePro automation mapping will work if you aren't able to sort that out.
Thanks for your help. I have more testing to do, however, bring volume and panning automation to a bounce track doesn't really work, since volume or panning automation now must be done on the Aux track. When you bounce, it will bounce the result of your automation rather than bringing the automation info over to the bounce track. You also have to reroute the output as it seems to always route to the Stereo Output rather than any aux routing that you have for the AUX return of VEP that you have set up. The bounce, however, does not have to be done real-time, and the issues of output routing or automation can be handled manually. It just takes more work than when bouncing a non-multi instrument track. I hope that makes sense.
 
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Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
I was able to bounce an aux return, the result included copying the automation from the aux track to the bounced track.

pleaae give the exact steps you are trying to do and maybe we can spot something.
 
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Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
So a couple things...

With multi-timbral instruments you can select one of the source tracks and use File->Bounce->Regions in Place or Tracks in Place. That is probably what you're doing now. When I just tested that, there is a checkbox to get multi-out audio, which captures the other used AUX returns...but its doing wonky things with the automation. As you said.

If I don't use extra audio outs from VePro, then it bounces correctly the stereo, but doesn't actually copy the automation events, it just bounces the effected sound with the volume changes burned into the audio track.

Another way to bounce is to create an AUX track. Go to the mixer, select the AUX channel(s) you want to bounce. right click on them and select Create Track. That will create a track corresponding specifically to the AUX return. You can then put automation onto that track... If you bounce that track, the automation events will be copied to the bounced audio track. Non-realtime. That's a good option, but you have to put the volume automation onto that other AUX track rather then the source instrument track...and you have to create extra tracks for the AUX channels.
 

rlw

Rod Wilson
So a couple things...

With multi-timbral instruments you can select one of the source tracks and use File->Bounce->Regions in Place or Tracks in Place. That is probably what you're doing now. When I just tested that, there is a checkbox to get multi-out audio, which captures the other used AUX returns...but its doing wonky things with the automation. As you said.

If I don't use extra audio outs from VePro, then it bounces correctly the stereo, but doesn't actually copy the automation events, it just bounces the effected sound with the volume changes burned into the audio track.

Another way to bounce is to create an AUX track. Go to the mixer, select the AUX channel(s) you want to bounce. right click on them and select Create Track. That will create a track corresponding specifically to the AUX return. You can then put automation onto that track... If you bounce that track, the automation events will be copied to the bounced audio track. Non-realtime. That's a good option, but you have to put the volume automation onto that other AUX track rather then the source instrument track...and you have to create extra tracks for the AUX channels.


Thanks, I had already Aux tracks from VEP in my template because I want to handle mics and reverbs differently for longs versus shorts. A few hours ago, I found after testing that the approach you recommended works very well. Yesterday, I was bouncing the track with the midi and while that does bounce it does not support bringing the automation over so that I can alter the automation in the final mix nor does it track with the outputs I have on the Aux tracks. But when I bounce the Aux track, it works very smoothly. If I want to bounce only a region (not the full track) , I just create a blank midi region in the Aux track that aligns with the midi instrument tracks that routes to the specfic Aux and bounce Region works great. Next, I must manually mute the midi track I just bounced. This approach works almost as smoothly as the single instance track approach with a couple of extra manual tasks. Thanks again for your insight and knowledge. I do appreciate your help.
 

rlw

Rod Wilson
On a side note, I tried to add track stacks to my template but immediately found that for many years uses have been complaining about losing external Smart Control Mappings when they put the instrument tracks in Track Stacks. I have used Lemur external control of Smart Controls to adjust the mics in Kontakt in VEP instances using VEP parameters mapped to the Kontakt Mics. Sadly I am ditching Track Stacks because I need the ability to adjust mics with Lemur. Is there another solution to this problem with External Smart Control mappings and Track Stacks, or is there a way to circumvent Smart Controls and directly control Mic levels from Lemur to VEP/Kontakt Instances.
 
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Dewdman42

Dewdman42

Senior Member
I don't know anything about lemur and very little about smart controls. Please let us know what you figure out!
 

noah90210

New Member
@Dewdman42 I’m brand new to VEPro and you have turned my insanely frustrating day into an inspiring one.
Thanks a million for your generosity.
If you’re as good a composer as you are a teacher you’ve got an Oscar coming!