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Logic Pro X summing stack and articulation map?

I'm trying to put more than one instance of VI Pro (dimension string desks in this case) in a summing stack in order to drive them with the same MIDI/score track. They have identically arranged matrices and control mappings, so are designed to work with the same articulation map.

The summing stack master track has the ability to load an articulation map (promising) but it appears to send nothing through to the nested instrument tracks.

Has anyone had this problem or gotten it working?

Is there another approach in Logic for driving more than one instrument with same MIDI and articulation map? (please don't say the environment, I can no longer read the tiny environment text).

Thanks!
 

A.G

Active Member
Is there another approach in Logic for driving more than one instrument with same MIDI and articulation map?
As far as I remember the Sum stack can load an Articulation Set, however it does not work, i.e the Art Set sends nothing.

Try to load the same Art Set into the Instrument tracks belonging to that stack.
The MIDI Region is placed on the Sum stack track.
 
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richhickey

Member
As far as I remember the Sum stack can load an Articulation Set, however it does not work, i.e the Art Set sends nothing.

Try to load the same Art Set into the Instrument tracks belonging to that stack.
The MIDI Region is placed on the Sum stack track.
Thanks. I tried that, no joy.
 

A.G

Active Member
Thanks. I tried that, no joy.
I did similar tests a while ago and I remember that the child Sum Instrument tracks send proper Art Sets output assignments to external MIDI monitor in my experiment. I did not try with VEP so the problem must be there in your case.
I will try when have time.
 

A.G

Active Member
Thanks. I tried that, no joy.
I had some time to test that again. All is fine using a third party MIDI monitor but in VEP only the 1st Instrument switches the articulations as expected. I tested that with VEP several instances like you and with a single Multitimbral Instance - the result is same.

Later I decided to try that scenario with the AG Articulation Scripter Multi Timbral Mode, using Art ID triggering type. All works perfectly with a single Multi Timbral VEP Instance and tracks packed into a Sum Stack - exactly as you wish. The MIDI Region is on the Sum track and all Articulations switch perfectly on the correspondent sub tracks for the different Dimmension Players. I have saved the AG Editor Preset as a Logic Art Set Names, so I loaded that Art Set into the Sum track and could switch the Note IDs via the Sum track using Art Names and group colors etc.
 
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richhickey

Member
I had some time to test that again. All is fine using a third party MIDI monitor but in VEP only the 1st Instrument switches the articulations as expected. I tested that with VEP several instances like you and with a single Multitimbral Instance - the result is same.

Later I decided to try that scenario with the AG Articulation Scripter Multi Timbral Mode, using Art ID triggering type. All works perfectly with a single Multi Timbral VEP Instance and tracks packed into a Sum Stack - exactly as you wish. The MIDI Region is on the Sum track and all Articulations switch perfectly on the correspondent sub tracks for the different Dimmension Players. I have saved the AG Editor Preset as a Logic Art Set Names, so I loaded that Art Set into the Sum track and could switch the Note IDs via the Sum track using Art Names and group colors etc.
Thanks for checking this out. I still can't reproduce that. To be clear, I am not using VEP, just VI Pro tracks.

But to test I simply put a Bidule MIDI monitor on a track and stuck that in a summing stack, put an articulation map on the sum master, and created 4 notes with artic IDs. They don't send any artic commands to the nested Bidule. One thing that might matter is that these are the newish multi-output artics:

articsstack.png

And to follow up - if I subsequently turn the articulation map OFF on the sum master and put the articulation map on the nested track, it gets the artic IDs from the master and generates the control data for the nested track!

But that means I have to keep toggling the artic map on/off on the master. I need it on to create the master track with selectable, named artics in the first place, but as long as it is active on the master that eats the artic IDs and sends neither commands nor artic IDs down the line.

I don't know how they imagine people will use this. You can't record/edit and hear them at the same time.
 
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richhickey

Member
I don't know how they imagine people will use this. You can't record/edit and hear them at the same time.
And the following recipe works, for those following along:

Take the artic map you really want and put it on the nested instruments. Then create a mirror map with all the same artic names and IDs, but NO OUTPUTs. It seems important that you have never had outputs, taking a copy of the real map and nuking the outputs doesn't seem to work :(

Place the no-output mirror map on the summing master. Then you can select artics by name on the master when recording and editing. The artic IDs will flow to the nested tracks and trigger their artic mappings.

p.s. when I looked at the plist of the version where I nuked the outputs (in the UI) it wasn't different from one created from scratch except for the presence of the

<key>MultipleOutputsActive</key>
<false/>

When I got rid of that it worked! So you could try editing a copy of your real artic map to create the no-output master.
 
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A.G

Active Member
When I got rid of that it worked! So you could try editing a copy of your real artic map to create the no-output master.
In my previous post I did this way - i.e the "Sum" Art Set had no output. In fact the AG Editor offers up to three "Save as" Logic Art Set types, so I used the save as "Articulation Names" type (no set outputs). As I mentioned I used a single region on the "Sum" track without "Alias regions" in the Instruments tracks, but with the AG MIDI FX plugin. I tried the same scenario with the native Logic Art Sets and it does not work - only the 1st Instrument is switching.

BTW. I suspect a technical issue in 10.4.2 with Multi Instrument tracks and Sums (sort of Art Sets confrontation) but I need more time to test.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
And the following recipe works, for those following along:

Take the artic map you really want and put it on the nested instruments. Then create a mirror map with all the same artic names and IDs, but NO OUTPUTs. It seems important that you have never had outputs, taking a copy of the real map and nuking the outputs doesn't seem to work :(

Place the no-output mirror map on the summing master. Then you can select artics by name on the master when recording and editing. The artic IDs will flow to the nested tracks and trigger their artic mappings.

p.s. when I looked at the plist of the version where I nuked the outputs (in the UI) it wasn't different from one created from scratch except for the presence of the

<key>MultipleOutputsActive</key>
<false/>

When I got rid of that it worked! So you could try editing a copy of your real artic map to create the no-output master.
That is very interesting. Thanks for figuring out a solution and reporting it.
 

A.G

Active Member
It is very logical to use two Art Sets as I mentioned previously:
• The Summing track Art Set must be stored without "Output Assignments" (such as Key Switches, Controllers etc). It must offer only Articulation Names.
• The completed (real) Articulation Set must contain "Output Assignments".

The problem is that the Logic Art Editor does not allow you multiple selection editing or quick "Clear Output Assignments", reset etc. It will take lots of time to create a second "fake" Art Set for the Summing track (most of the large Dimension Strings Matrices come with more than 50 articulations).

I offer a very easy and quick method for the AG Art PRO 6.2 users who follow this topic.
I just created a short Video tutor where I demonstrate that in details.

 
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