Logic Pro & Apple

Discussion in 'Your DAW (Digital Audio Workstation)' started by Levon, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. JEPA

    JEPA Senior Member

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    (i'm a mac user) If i were the OP and would step for the first time on Mac i would buy a second hand refurbished Mac Pro or iMac, for £1500 and buy Software, Controllers for £2500, if £4000 is you budget... In case of no satisfaction you can always think about buying in the future a PC again and use the mac as a slave computer. Just thinking..
     
  2. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    And of course today the entire market tanked.

    This proves what I always say: the way to get rich is to watch what I do - and do the opposite.
     
    tmhuud and Dewdman42 like this.
  3. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    my cardinal rule in investing is go the opposite direction of everyone else. When the building is on fire and everyone is running out...go in there and claim it. When everyone wants back in, get the hell out.
     
  4. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    That's my strategy too, and read my last post. :)

    Seriously, stocks reflect expected future earnings. So your cardinal rule is that people always have incorrect information.

    Sorry, I'm not hiring you as my financial planner. You're even dumber than I am when it comes to investment! :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018 at 11:23 AM
  5. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    only in a think tank do stocks accurately reflect future earnings. they swing up and down all the time, having absolutely nothing to do with earnings and everything to do with spooked out or overly enthusiastic masses of people. The stock market is often times just barely a step away from las vegas.

    The strategy to go the opposite direction as everyone else is a well known strategy, I am not alone in this. The masses of people typically are late to the game. What happens is that some stuff is successful from people that bought early when things were looking grim. Then things got a lot better and they made a lot of money. Then all their friends say, "hey I want to make a lot of money too", so they all jump in, driving up the values, for a while, but it becomes over inflated at some point because all of those people jumped in over-optimistically and too late to the game, they already missed the buy opportunity back before when things looked grim.

    When you see the most people flocking into it and driving prices way up, that is when you want to get out. And visa versa, when they are dumping it like crazy, you buy...that is presuming you think they have future potential earnings.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018 at 4:51 PM
  6. galactic orange

    galactic orange Sensor Number

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    So do the opposite of what everyone else does, except with a set delay time. Got it.

    When is that new Mini getting here? I'd like a new Mac to run Logic on. Otherwise I'll have to settle for a refurbished trash can or 6-core iMac. The money is burning a hole in my wallet. I hope Apple takes their Logic users more seriously and updates hardware to match their software appropriately.
     
  7. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    Everyone with money in the stock market other than you and the people who you are not alone with is an idiot?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018 at 11:24 PM
  8. charlieclouser

    charlieclouser Senior Member

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    I've been long on AAPL since John Sculley was CEO. That's how much I like the taste of the kool-aid. Haven't sold a single share yet.
     
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  9. Soundhound

    Soundhound Senior Member

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    If I'd bought only Apple stock in the 90s I could be writing music in my house in the Caribbean right now. If I'd bought one or more of those lofts we were looking at in Tribeca in the early 90s, same thing. When apple comes out with a time machine, I'm getting one. Problem is it'll look great, be easy to use and work about 60% of the time, so I'll end up growing old in the 19th century somewhere....
     
  10. charlieclouser

    charlieclouser Senior Member

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    :laugh: Exactly. "All I tried to do was update TimeTravelOS to the latest version, and now I'm stuck in the Pre-Cambrian era!"
     
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  11. Soundhound

    Soundhound Senior Member

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    Watch out for that Mars-sized object that's going to crash into earth and form the moon... On the other hand that supercontinent probably makes travel very convenient...

     
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  12. lpuser

    lpuser Senior Member

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    You are aware of the fact that there is a full team of people (aka the former Emagic crew and more) are working on Logic? Honestly I cannot see how things should go faster, because in my opinion Logic updates were pushed out very frequently during the last 1.5 years. Development takes time and testing and more people are not a guarantee that it will work out faster, because a larger team can introduce considerably more issues than a smaller, flexible and dedicated one with less organisational overhead and short times to action.
     
  13. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    That means it's grown from roughly 1 to 222!

    Not bad.
     
  14. Vik

    Vik Scandi Member

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    Maybe the old, full team is still there, I wouldn't know, but I'm sure most of them are still around, and others too. I'm not saying that there isn't a team working on Logic - the last update certainly proves that there is.

    But in terms of "I cannot see how things should go faster": it's a question of priorities. Cubase had, for instance, expression maps almost 10 years before Logic got their Articulation Sets. Steinberg and Avid have had a dedicated staff working on notation only for a long time; Avid took over Sibelius in 2006, Steinberg took over the original Sibelius team about 5 years ago - while *many* of the wishes I and many I know have had for Logic since before Logic 8 was released still aren't implemented. So it's not about "how things could go faster", but about what kind of priorities Apple has for Logic.


    Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those "Logic is dead" guys. We certainly have seen some nice stuff since the Logic 8 days. But it looks as if Apple has a rather extreme lack of interest in composition related features and the situation of composers in general (since they mention all kinds of stuff about a piece when listening to them - except who wrote it).

    Things have gotten a little better lately, but the thing about not mentioning composers etc is something which should have been in there (in iTunes) from day one.

    Having said that, Apple is extremely successful when it comes to making money, and I respect them for that. But they're not the company they were, they're a mainly a phone/car/watch/"post PC" company.

    One of the reasons why they have so much success is maybe the fact that they ignore/postpone the kind of wishes a small group like composers and VI users often have, and go for what most people want: entertainment and 'pop culture'.


    Logic is soon 30 years old, but is still missing solutions for wishes like multiple automation lanes in the editors, ability to move channel strips in the mixer, a customisable colour palette, a lot of score functionality, full freeze (which unloads samples and other RAM), a separate unload function doing the same (important for large templates), proper track naming (as opposed to channel strip naming), proper display of accidentals... and much more.

    Some of the stuff I personally miss the most are some of the composing oriented features Sibelius has had for a long time (which Dorico, made by the same team, doesn't have either). So I'm not saying that there are someone out there who does everything/most stuff that's important for users like myself right. I just wish there was.

    If almost 30 years of development without all these functions is 'fast' for you, at least one of us need to redefine how we use 'fast'. :)

    When Apple acquired Emagic, they had maybe around 10 000 employees. Now they have more than 120 000. Maybe 50 of these work on Logic related stuff? Whatever the number is, I think the staff should have been large enough to give the kind of users I'm talking about more attention.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018 at 3:22 PM
  15. lpuser

    lpuser Senior Member

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    No worries, I absolutely understand what you mean, but I think it´s important to see that Logic does not want to compete with Cubase or ProTools. You are right with your examples, however please don´t forget that Logic did have things which other DAWs did not have - and when comparing, it was often ahead in terms CPU useage and performance of on the Mac platform.

    There were a few enhancements in the notation areas and if this is important for you, then it´s an absolutely valid point to say that not much happened. Personally, I have not used notation for a single time over the past 15 years and so do many others. Maybe those who are looking into profession notations go for other products, such as Dorico?

    And I see your point regarding Apple being successful in terms of making money - believe me, I am e.g. not happy with the current hardware lineup. Not enough expansion ports on the Macbooks, no Pro version without touchbar, no new Mac Pro, removing the headphone jack from the i-devices ... all bad, but this does really not mean that the developement team is not doing their absolute best and it is certainly not about the money, because Logic is one of the highest grossing products on the App Store.

    LOL, well we realise how old the earth is, then 30 years is indeed nothing. But more seriously, like I wrote above, there are different priorities and many wishes have been fullfilled in the past (also compared to other DAWs).

    But when Apple acquired Emagic, they took over the Emagic staff who did an excellent job back then and still do so today. At that time, Apple was not active in many other areas they are today, so this does explain the growing number of employees.

    Having a bit of expertise in software development, I am still thinking that expanded staff does not necessarily mean fast development or better products, because merging things together becomes way more complicated. Believe me, Logic is getting a lot of love these days ... :)
     
  16. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    You do know it has multiple automation lanes in the main window, right? And that you can display multiple MIDI controller lanes in the Step Editor?

    You can move channel strips (and much more) if you create a mixer in the Environment. I have everything set up that way in my templates for navigation, although I usually use the regular mixer for mixing.

    A customizable color palette... not sure what that means. You can color tracks and regions.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018 at 4:17 PM
  17. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    Full freeze (?) or any kind of unloading samples seems outdated to me. It was a great feature in the 32-bit days when you could only access maybe 3GB of samples - not that I've ever used it in my life. But today? Lots of people have 128GB of RAM. I "only" have 64, and can't come close to filling more than about 45GB no matter how hard I try.

    Proper track name vs. channel strips... you can name tracks, channel strips, and regions. I don't understand.

    And can you explain what you mean by proper display of accidentals? It's true that they haven't added many features to the score editor for a long time (although they have fixed things).

    In general, they've concentrated their development on things like Drummer, adding Alchemy, the new Smart Tempo editor, new Strings and Horns libraries, and Articulation Maps (definitely a composer feature).

    I'm not necessarily arguing with your feature wants, but at least some of them seem like you're conflating how you'd like to work with how Logic works instead.
     
  18. Vik

    Vik Scandi Member

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    Sure.

    And I know one can move channel strips (and much more) in the Environment.

    A customisable colour palette means to allow users to customise their colour palette, like we used to be able to do in Logic's earlier versions. See this site's Logic wishlist/poll, it's a wish many users are missing in Logic.

    https://vi-control.net/community/th...l-logic-suggestions-please-keep-voting.52022/
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018 at 6:11 PM
  19. Vik

    Vik Scandi Member

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    Laptops can't have more than 32, and my guess is that most users don't have 128 or even 64 gb. If you work with Kontakt based templates, they use a lot of RAM, even with all the samples purged. Cubase has this function, and it's often mentioned as one of the reasons they choose Cubase over Logic.


    "Proper track name vs. channel strips... you can name tracks, channel strips, and regions. I don't understand."
    Users are generally confused about this, because Apple uses the term track name in a confusing way. But look here:

    Screen Shot 2018-10-13 at 02.58.48.png

    I could write a lot about what's wrong with Logic's track naming, but the short version is that there isn't a dedicated track name option in Logic. You can create track names in some situations, but a dedicated track name funciton would make life easier and less confusing.


    "And can you explain what you mean by proper display of accidentals?"
    Sure. This is how triads should be displayed, automatically (screenshot from Sibelius):

    Accidentals and triads in Sibelius.png

    Try to record the same triads in Logic and compare...

    In Logic, due to how it handles accidentals, you can't even be sure that you see all the notes in your chord (in the score editor).

    And of course, I know that Logic now has an articulation editor and that this is a great move for VI composers. :)
     
  20. Vik

    Vik Scandi Member

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    I'll save you some time... :)

    Screen Shot 2018-10-13 at 03.17.43.png

    Not only do almost half of them look just wrong, they don't look like triads. This makes even simple material harder to sight read, and makes many people assume that reading notation is more difficult than it actually is. Besides, in the event lists/event float, everything is displayed with sharps, even if you have defined that the song is n a flat key. This hasn't been improved since the Logic development started (in the late 1980s, if I'm not mistaken).
     

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