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Logic Pro 1000+ track support coming?

Ashermusic

Senior Member
No, it has not, not since 2013. So whatever the next update will be will most likely be a major and paid update. Logic jumped from version 9 to X in the summer of 2013, also coinciding with Summer NAMM 2013.
No, it likely will be a free upgrade.
 

Geoff Grace

Senior Member
Yeah, as Logic Pro X is essentially a loss leader for Apple, the cost of an upgrade is mostly rolled into the price of a new Mac. Or put another way—every time we buy a new Mac, we're helping to underwrite Apple's software development, which they then distribute either for free or below market cost.

I'd be surprised if Apple charged for the next update.

Best,

Geoff
 
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Alex Fraser

Senior Member
After looking at the new system requirements, my ancient iMac is hanging in there, but my iPad Air looks like it'll no longer run Logic remote. That's a shame.
 

Lee Blaske

Senior Member
I won't complain if it's a paid upgrade, but I'd be surprised if it was. If Apple was seriously interested in making money off of Logic Pro, there would have been a number of upgrades by now. As is often mentioned, it's a loss leader to sell computers.

And, Apple's policy of not charging for upgrades has really been kicking the competition's butt. For $199, considering all the content and all the plug-ins, nothing can touch Logic Pro. Plus, for the entire Logic Pro X user base out there, there's not much reason to run anything but the latest version. That means the entire user base is pretty much up-to-date with Logic Pro X (that makes collaboration GREAT). It's not a version minefield, like ProTools, where people are using every version under the sun (either because they don't want to pay for an upgrade, or because their OS doesn't support it, or because their computer is obsolete and not supported, or because their Avid/Digidesign interfaces and cards are not supported). ProTools needs to sell their software that way, because that's where they make their cash, but their user base is a mess.
 

Cinebient

Active Member
There are DAWs on iPad which have unlimited tracks, FX inserts, midi FX inserts....not that any device could handle 1000+ but i wonder why there is any limit at all within Logic.
I would like to have more FX and especially midi FX inserts per channel.
But i´m mostly interested if we see new tools/synths/FX in the next Logic version.
I wish Sculpture 2.0 would come and as usual some Alchemy upgrades.
I also wish i could have more layers of stacked tracks/groups (like Bitwig).
There is so much more i would like to have inside Logic before i want 1000 tracks from anything :)
 

charlieclouser

Senior Member
I'm one of the few non-John-Powell users who will be absolutely thrilled at 1,000 instrument capability. Since I use EXS24 almost exclusively, I can build even more ridiculous templates that include everything I could want in a project, and then just collapse and hide the folders. Since EXS does that "keep common samples in memory when switching projects" thing (basically the same as "Preserved But Not Decoupled" in VEPro), I can avoid hosting anything other than Kontakt/Omnisphere/Play/Spitfire in VEPro and project switching will stay under 10 seconds. Even with 256 Instrument tracks I've run out when building big templates.

256 busses will be handy as well, allowing me to go to a higher number of quad stems with dedicated per-stem front-and-back reverbs and delays. Still hoping they'll implement the "surround busses A-Z" solution that Clemens proposed a couple of years back, but until then more busses will get me by.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Since EXS does that "keep common samples in memory when switching projects" thing (basically the same as "Preserved But Not Decoupled" in VEPro), I can avoid hosting anything other than Kontakt/Omnisphere/Play/Spitfire in VEPro and project switching will stay under 10 seconds. .
Can you please elaborate on this?
 

charlieclouser

Senior Member
Can you please elaborate on this?
For the last 15 years or so, Logic's EXS24 sampler has had a function that's very similar to using "Preserve = ON, Decouple = OFF" in VEPro. Open the EXS plugin, then under the Options button on the front-panel GUI, choose "Preferences". This opens a small dialog that's just for the EXS24 settings, and this is the only place you can find and adjust these settings. You can do great things like specify an incoming MIDI event to go to the next/previous Instrument for quick browsing (I wish Kontakt had this, or if it does, that I knew where it was!).

But the interesting one is the bottom-most checkbox: "Keep common samples in memory when switching projects". When this is enabled, Logic will not un-load and then re-load the samples needed by EXS24 when you switch between projects that both use the same instruments.

So, if you build a template with a zillion EXS instances, and then have a whole bunch of projects that were all created from that template, switching between those projects will be VERY quick. Logic just compares the EXS instances in the outgoing project to those in the incoming project and you can watch it just blaze through the process. In my projects that use 200+ EXS instances it takes about 10 seconds to switch between projects.

So it's like "Preserve but NOT Decouple" in VEPro - the front panel settings for all EXS instances ARE saved with each project, so you can adjust filter / ADSR / mod matrix / whatever in one project and then go to another project and those settings will be changed to whatever they were when that project was last saved.

This is absolutely killer, and I don't like to work any other way. I want each project to have unique, saved settings for all front-panel settings for every sampler instance. Of course, this isn't such a huge deal when working with Kontakt orchestral libraries, since many of them don't even have anything worth adjusting on the front panel - no ADSR, no filter, etc. This is a huge pain for the way I like to work, and is a big reason I hardly use Kontakt.

Plus, EXS puts the velocity-switching and crossfade controls on the front panel, as mod matrix routings, so you can instantly switch between velocity-crossfade and modwheel-crossfade and tweak the crossfade amount and curve. Doing that in Kontakt involves going under the hood, selecting groups, finding and then dealing with that crazy "curve table" modulator, etc. Pain.

Yes, EXS is very limited compared to Kontakt - no true-legato-transitions, difficult (if not impossible) multi-mic position support, etc. etc. etc. But dang is it quick to use, and I can manage massive templates almost as quickly as if they had no software instruments at all. I did a test a while back where I converted all of the EXS Instruments in a template to Kontakt, and then rebuilt the whole thing using Kontakt instances, and it was torture to work with. My quick and light template (even with 250+ EXS instances) acted like a pig once I had 250 Kontakt instances. So I deployed all of those Kontakt instruments in VEPro, and Logic acted a little snappier but the workflow was a huge drag for me.

So I'm still EXS all the way.... or at least, as much as possible. All eight of the SAW movies, all of my other movies and tv series... all EXS, except for maybe twenty cues (out of thousands) where I used a few Kontakt or Omnisphere patches. I just finished another film score that's 100% EXS and audio tracks. Quick-n-easy.
 

charlieclouser

Senior Member
I forgot to mention on downside / missing feature about EXS "Keep common samples in memory when switching projects" feature - it only works for those EXS instances that use the same instrument IN THE SAME SLOT in the two projects. So if you use an EXS patch in Instrument 47 in project A, and the same patch in Instrument 48 in project B, Logic will un-load and re-load that patch when you with projects. This might be programmer error, or maybe it's too time-consuming for Logic to cross-check the matrix of possibilities between every EXS patch used in project A agains all those used in project B, but... I thought I should mention it before someone complains that it's not working on their system.

In practice, it's not a huge drawback, since you'll likely build out a template at the start of the project and then use "Save As" to create the files for each cue, so the slots that any given EXS patch is loaded into are not likely to change all that often, but I did notice this slight drawback when fiddling around one day. Maybe it's been fixed in more recent Logic versions - I'm still on v10.2.4 like some sort of caveman.
 

Geoff Grace

Senior Member
I would really like to witness a full production using even 700 tracks i mean come on guys.
There are people who work like this. One example might be when a variety of remixes live in the same session with the original multitrack recording. You wind up with a number of alternate versions, each with 100+ tracks. I saw that sort of thing when I was working in the record industry. The recording artist wants it that way, and the arrangers and engineers have to deal with the headache of keeping it all organized.

Best,

Geoff
 
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charlieclouser

Senior Member
ok i guess that,s one way to build up track count
Another way is to just have every possible sound you might want to use in a score up on an instrument track, with EQ, compression, routing, etc. in place and ready to go, all sorted into the order that makes it easy for you to find what's there quickly, without loading any instruments or their patches. Then you can pack 'em into folders and/or hide the tracks so you're not scrolling through all 1,000 all the time. This is how I tend to work, and it's easy to use up a LOT of instrument slots quickly.

If you watch some of JunkieXL's videos he often does this, although it takes a few VEPro slaves for him to get everything up all at the same time.
 

Wolfie2112

Senior Member
I would really like to witness a full production using even 700 tracks i mean come on guys.
I have never seen a project using that many tracks simultaneously, but I have indeed seen guys with well over 1000 tracks loaded into their templates. Many composers work like this. They like to have every possible articulation loaded so that it's there, ready to go if the inspiration strikes.
 

Damarus

Active Member
I would hope a $15,000 computer can handle 1000 carefully selected tracks for a live demo on software that is optimized for that OS and hardware.
 

novaburst

Senior Member
I have never seen a project using that many tracks simultaneously,
I think i was thinking more on these terms,

but I have indeed seen guys with well over 1000 tracks loaded into their templates. Many composers work like this.
But i guess this counts too

I dont think i have ever reached 90 tracks but in Vienna ensemble pro there can be hundreds but stream lined into cubase you can say they are a kind of bus in VE with all the effects inside VE too in server too.
 

InLight-Tone

Senior Member
For the last 15 years or so, Logic's EXS24 sampler has had a function that's very similar to using "Preserve = ON, Decouple = OFF" in VEPro. Open the EXS plugin, then under the Options button on the front-panel GUI, choose "Preferences". This opens a small dialog that's just for the EXS24 settings, and this is the only place you can find and adjust these settings. You can do great things like specify an incoming MIDI event to go to the next/previous Instrument for quick browsing (I wish Kontakt had this, or if it does, that I knew where it was!).

But the interesting one is the bottom-most checkbox: "Keep common samples in memory when switching projects". When this is enabled, Logic will not un-load and then re-load the samples needed by EXS24 when you switch between projects that both use the same instruments.

So, if you build a template with a zillion EXS instances, and then have a whole bunch of projects that were all created from that template, switching between those projects will be VERY quick. Logic just compares the EXS instances in the outgoing project to those in the incoming project and you can watch it just blaze through the process. In my projects that use 200+ EXS instances it takes about 10 seconds to switch between projects.

So it's like "Preserve but NOT Decouple" in VEPro - the front panel settings for all EXS instances ARE saved with each project, so you can adjust filter / ADSR / mod matrix / whatever in one project and then go to another project and those settings will be changed to whatever they were when that project was last saved.

This is absolutely killer, and I don't like to work any other way. I want each project to have unique, saved settings for all front-panel settings for every sampler instance. Of course, this isn't such a huge deal when working with Kontakt orchestral libraries, since many of them don't even have anything worth adjusting on the front panel - no ADSR, no filter, etc. This is a huge pain for the way I like to work, and is a big reason I hardly use Kontakt.

Plus, EXS puts the velocity-switching and crossfade controls on the front panel, as mod matrix routings, so you can instantly switch between velocity-crossfade and modwheel-crossfade and tweak the crossfade amount and curve. Doing that in Kontakt involves going under the hood, selecting groups, finding and then dealing with that crazy "curve table" modulator, etc. Pain.

Yes, EXS is very limited compared to Kontakt - no true-legato-transitions, difficult (if not impossible) multi-mic position support, etc. etc. etc. But dang is it quick to use, and I can manage massive templates almost as quickly as if they had no software instruments at all. I did a test a while back where I converted all of the EXS Instruments in a template to Kontakt, and then rebuilt the whole thing using Kontakt instances, and it was torture to work with. My quick and light template (even with 250+ EXS instances) acted like a pig once I had 250 Kontakt instances. So I deployed all of those Kontakt instruments in VEPro, and Logic acted a little snappier but the workflow was a huge drag for me.

So I'm still EXS all the way.... or at least, as much as possible. All eight of the SAW movies, all of my other movies and tv series... all EXS, except for maybe twenty cues (out of thousands) where I used a few Kontakt or Omnisphere patches. I just finished another film score that's 100% EXS and audio tracks. Quick-n-easy.
I'm new to Logic but I feel I need to study all of Charlies excellent advice on the subject. Thanks for typing all this out man!
 
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