Logic 10.4 Articulation Discussion

Discussion in 'Your DAW (Digital Audio Workstation)' started by khollister, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    If you observe what is happening with a midi monitor you can see that CC's with artid's do in fact send the corresponding keyswitch from the artset output section. The reason your notes still sound ok is because when the next note comes through another keyswitch is sent to switch the instrument back again. As you have pointed out, it seems to sound fine for you, but there is a lot of needless keyswitching happening, which doesn't seem to bother you, but does bother some others, including myself. And in some cases, such as the other recent poster, could result in problems with the instrument as well. For example if you are using a Program Change to actually change presets in the instrument, then the CC switches would change the sound currently playing, etc.. Could be other situations where it be wonky.

    Yep I agree. Or just have it so that if you turn off the orange MIDI REMOTE button, then it should disable the defaulting of anything, but right now even with that orange button in the off position, you still get forced artid to every event. Or just at least give us an option to set the articulation control on the plugin window to "-".

    definitely.
     
  2. procreative

    procreative Senior Member

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    Yes I do know the keyswitches are being sent by the CCs, but from what I can see it seems the IDs have to be attached to Notes to trigger sound changes.

    Its not ideal to have all that extra activity. The best workaround is by far to just delete the events as changing IDs for blank ones could create a can of worms.

    As I said if you use automation to drive CC controls in the VI instead of CC data directly going into logic, automation does not get IDs attached. Thats another workaround.

    The extra neat thing with using automation is that its a great way to change the output as for example in some libraries CC2 is Vibrato and in some others its something else competely.

    Editing the script output in a track means you can drag and drop the midi between tracks of different VIs and have them all trigger the same control. Spitfire seem to use different CCs to say Cinematic Studio Strings.
     
  3. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    it just depends. In keyswitched instruments that are smart enough, which is most of them; to have multiple sounds playing from one "patch" so to speak..then an incoming keyswitch should not change a sound that is already playing. But that may not always be the case. I gave one example above. In that case a CC with a keyswitch could dissrupt the already playing sound.

    blank ones are fine, just make sure you have a blank articulation at the top of the set.

    Well there are some interesting things there. I have been messing around a lot with KH spotlight solo strings, for example, and I'm convinced at the moment that the timing of CC automation in kontakt is not exactly calibrated with notes to the instrument, so you have a bit more slop factor in terms of needing to send CC automation sooner. But there are a lot of things I like about using automation also. its more visual for one thing.
     
  4. procreative

    procreative Senior Member

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    Well from a personal point of view, the main reason I am using automation to drive CCs is that my Mackie MCU has built in support for Smart Controls. By engaging fader flip I can use the motorised faders to input data and it also has recall and track follow as being automation the faders get feedback from Logic.

    As usual pros and cons, cannot use Track Stacks as Logic loses hardware connections to Smart Controls when they are inside Track Stacks, but its a trade off.
     
    Dewdman42 likes this.
  5. ptram

    ptram Senior Member

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    I don't know if you have already tried or discovered it, but there is an easy way to add the 'dummy' artid at the beginning of the list, without having to re-edit everything in Logic's artid Edit window.

    Just look for the (User)/Music/Audio Music Apps/Articulation Settings/ folder, and find the .plist corresponding to the artid map you want to edit.

    Open it with a text editor, like BBEdit, and duplicate the first articulation. An artid looks something like this:

    <dict>
    <key>ArticulationID</key>
    <integer>1</integer>
    <key>ID</key>
    <integer>1001</integer>
    <key>Name</key>
    <string>sustain vib</string>
    <key>Output</key>
    <dict>
    <key>MB1</key>
    <integer>1</integer>
    <key>Status</key>
    <string>Note On</string>
    <key>ValueLow</key>
    <integer>1</integer>
    </dict>
    </dict>

    Add the duplicated artid at the beginning of the list of <dict> bundles, and assign it the highest supported ID (234). Something like this (or – exactly this):

    <dict>
    <key>ArticulationID</key>
    <integer>254</integer>
    <key>ID</key>
    <integer>1254</integer>
    <key>Name</key>
    <string>(none)</string>
    </dict>

    The '(none)' artid will be the first in the list. The artids you already assigned in your scores will be preserved, since the same ID will remain assigned to the events.

    Select the articulation map again in the Info box, and your list will be updated.

    Paolo

    (EDIT: Replaced 234 with 254)
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
    Alex Fraser likes this.
  6. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    Yep. But I am not sure if the KEY needs to be unique or what. In your case it’s 1001.

    The highest allowed articulation id in LPX is 254
     
  7. babylonwaves

    babylonwaves Senior Member

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    @WindcryMusic
    I didn't read through all this thread but make sure the UACC KS root note is on C-2. Spitfire sometimes sets it differently for no apparent reason and that would result in the switches not working right. I mean the UACC root note of the instrument you're controlling.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  8. ptram

    ptram Senior Member

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    Judging from the tests I've done, it seems that using an Articulation ID = 254 and an ID = 1254, with the articulation at the beginning of the list, it works as expected (the automatic selection of the first articulation in the list does not produce any effect).

    Paolo
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  9. Peter Schwartz

    Peter Schwartz Senior Member

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    If that's the case, man, that's some high strangeness. I haven't run into that situation but I'll be on the lookout for it.

    Still, there's no particular reason for locking the palette to UACC KS when using ARTzID (which is what @WindcryMusic is using). Barring any weirdness in the programming of the patch itself, it'll work when it's locked to UACC along with the UACC Script. It should also work with the patch totally unlocked so that it acts like any other keyswitching patch (lowest keyswitch = C-2) in conjunction with any number of other the system's Scripts.
     
  10. procreative

    procreative Senior Member

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    This method only works if you only record without an articulation selected or you record the CC on a second pass. If you switch articulation and move CCs while recording, the CCs take on the same ID of the notes.

    Also if an articulation is already set in the plugin window, the CCs still pick that up even when recorded on a second pass.
     
  11. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    Having the blank, however, does effect the output switches during playback, which in my view is the bigger problem.

    Turn off the set while recording and use the blank first line and you won’t have problems.
     
  12. procreative

    procreative Senior Member

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    I certainly agree having CCs set to "–" avoids unwanted flickering of arts, but adding a "blank" articulation does not create this.

    But then you wont hear the selected articulations while you record the CCs?
     
  13. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    The blank is more to to prevent the problem on output that's what I'm trying to say. If you have "-" events, they will default to the first articulation keyswitch also. So you need the blank to prevent that from happening.

    If you need to use input keyswitches as you're playing, then of course you have to use the articulation set. If you are ok with recording your part without switching the articulations as you play, then scratch the articulation set in order to record everything "-"

    We're going in circles now..
     
  14. babylonwaves

    babylonwaves Senior Member

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    it's a bug in their latest symphonic strings update (1.3.0b42) and also with the chamber strings. all performance legato instruments default to UACC KS C-1 instead of C-2. there is a handful of older instruments which also have that and never got corrected.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
    Peter Schwartz likes this.
  15. JonesyXL

    JonesyXL Active Member

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    UK
    Apologies if this has already been answered somewhere in this thread - but is there a definitive solution for getting the logic articulations and CSS working? If so, can anyone spot what mistakes I've made in the art. set edit?

    I entered a blank for Articulation ID1, but on playback every CC message resets the articulation to Legato Standard, regardless of the articulation that's set at the start of recording.

    Screen Shot 2018-05-16 at 13.48.18.png Screen Shot 2018-05-16 at 13.47.59.png
     
  16. nbd

    nbd Senior Member

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    Lappeenranta, Finland
    For me the only 100% working solution was to combine the new logic articulation system with MIDI scripter. The logic articulation system is basically just making the articulations human readable instead of 1...n and the MIDI scripter then sends CC's for each before sending the note on command.

    I could not find a way to make the CC's or keyswitches work reliably by using only the articulation editor.
     
  17. JonesyXL

    JonesyXL Active Member

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    Okay cool, thanks @nbd, I'll look into MIDI scripting. Is it very complex?

    I guess a workaround would be to load each articulation on different midi channels into one kontakt instance. I don't know if that'll effect CPU much. Also, changing mic mixes would be a PITA.

    One of the things that I like most about CSS is having all the options for each section in one place.
     
  18. rlw

    rlw Rod Wilson

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    Atlanta, GA
    You can consider the Peter Swartz’s utility “ ArtzId “ which handles CSS very well.
     
    JonesyXL likes this.
  19. cyrilblanc

    cyrilblanc Active Member

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    Is it still NOT COMPATIBLE with VSL ?
    Can you handle Brass and Wind instruments ?
    I coud not find the 83 manufacturer list
     
  20. Peter Schwartz

    Peter Schwartz Senior Member

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    I don't know what you mean...ARTzID and all of my previous systems have featured extensive VSL (and VEPro) support. In fact, my VSL scripts provide functions that exceed the native capabilities of the Vienna instruments plug in itself.

    ArtzID V2 has scripts that support multitrack recording, velocity-sensitive key switching, and much more. So really, I have no idea where you got the idea that my systems don't support that Library.
     
    NoamL likes this.

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