KSP is hard

OP
NormkbPlayer

NormkbPlayer

Member
Can't they make KSP generator?
We can custom build with Default Presents.

And when we need the Code
Just Export it. ?

Am I thinking way too Ahead?? ,,🙈
 

EvilDragon

KSP Wizard
It ain't simple as that. There's any number of ways you can use the available KSP commands, you cannot cover all the possible usecases with such a generator.
 

Fredeke

Senior Member
Can't they make KSP generator?
We can custom build with Default Presents.

And when we need the Code
Just Export it. ?

Am I thinking way too Ahead?? ,,🙈
There's a commercial Kontakt GUI Editor (I think that's what it's called) that will take care of generating the code for the controls (knobs, buttons, etc.), from a graphical drawing board. I suppose it saves time.
But as for the actual performance handling, KSP exists exactly for what can't be programmed any other way than by coding. If the kind of generator you suggest were possible, then there would be no reason for KSP to exist.
(Oh, sure, there are a few things for which KSP is required that could have been directly accessible from a graphical interface, but Kontakt's GUI is quite extensive yet, and at some point, coding would be necessary anyway. There are just too many conditions to handle, and code is the most efficient way of handling conditions.)

[EDIT: Basically I said the same thing as EvilDragon, in many more words :-/ ]
 
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neblix

Music, Math, Cats
Productivity tools and quality of life for programmers in any other industry is miles beyond the experience KSP developers get. SublimeKSP is a small band-aid. The insistence on a proprietary scripting language disables developers from taking advantage of IDE's, which have been a staple in professional programming for decades now. Imagine being able to compile your multi-file project without tabbing to the right file that needs to be compiled, imagine global paths for re-usable modules, imagine sample library project templates available at the click of a button, imagine refactoring code frequently and painlessly without tripping on regex gymnastics, imagine live syntax checks (not compile-time syntax checks, causing 20 minutes of compiling repeatedly to iron out every typo in your code), imagine breakpoint code debugging and monitoring, the list goes on...
 

Lindon

VST/AU Developer
They should have. I suppose they originally didn't intend it to grow so much.


That's what feels familiar about it !
God I hate Pascal. The rigor of C combined with the power of Basic ;)
LUA wasnt even an option when they started. Tho' Pascal was (and is) a questionable choice. The real crime is that they havent bitten the bullet and removed KSP and replaced it with something easier to use like LUA or Javascript, and with better functionality.
.
 

Fredeke

Senior Member
LUA wasnt even an option when they started. Tho' Pascal was (and is) a questionable choice. The real crime is that they havent bitten the bullet and removed KSP and replaced it with something easier to use like LUA or Javascript, and with better functionality.
.
I suppose that would require a deep redesign, and they're probably not gonna do that as long as they lead the market.
(Maybe we should all move to HISE, as a message ?)
Also, they would (preferably) need to address backward compatibility.
 

Lindon

VST/AU Developer
Actually KSP's limitations would be its friend here, basically every call to the underlying engine already has a parameterised approach - so it'd be not toooooo difficult to do. Its laziness - and being the market leader isnt helping you are right.
 

Fredeke

Senior Member
Actually KSP's limitations would be its friend here, basically every call to the underlying engine already has a parameterised approach - so it'd be not toooooo difficult to do. Its laziness - and being the market leader isnt helping you are right.
Yeah, maybe they could even program a KSP emulator in Lua ;). Just kidding, that would be messy.
But some professional applications accept more than one scripting languages: Photoshop, Reaper, ...
So, if you're right, I suppose KSP could cohabit with a more modern language?
If the OP has to learn to code, it would be nice if he could at least learn some decent language.
Me I don't mind, I fiddle with several already.
 

EvilDragon

KSP Wizard
I've just got into KSP maybe less than 10 days.
Then it's maybe premature to cry? Especially if you didn't have any previous programming experience - almost any programming language could be considered hard then.


Its laziness
It's not that. It's just that there are much bigger problems in Kontakt that have precedence over everything else - and KSP works and serves its purpose. It's prioritizing that bigger fish that needs to be fried.


So, if you're right, I suppose KSP could cohabit with a more modern language?
Of course it could, it's a matter of prioritization really. And available manpower. Kontakt team is not 50 developers.
 
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OP
NormkbPlayer

NormkbPlayer

Member
Then it's maybe premature to cry? Especially if you didn't have any previous programming experience - almost any programming language could be considered hard then.
I learnt C++ at one point.
But it was too basic.

Now I don't even know what the Commands means.

I'll give it a go.
 

Fredeke

Senior Member
I learnt C++ at one point.
But it was too basic.

Now I don't even know what the Commands means.

I'll give it a go.
You should be fine then. Just apply yourself and be patient. KSP is tedious, but not complicated. (Actually it is pretty basic, you just need to lay down everything at length, exactly because of that.)

And this community is a great resource. Don't hesitate to ask questions as you go. (I personally owe much, especially to EvilDragon and d.haley) [EDIT: and P.N.)
 
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Why exactly are you using Kontakt instead of HISE?

Javascript is a lot more beginner friendly and powerful and has much better learning resources. Not to mention it has a proper WYSIWYG GUI editor and debugging tools.

And if you eventually want to script for kontakt the APIs are similar enough that you would benefit greatly from the previous HISE knowledge.
 
Apart from the fact that Kontakt is everywhere, its stability and performance are established? :)
This might be anecdotal (same library implemented in both) but in my tests the performance has been within margin of error between the platforms. And I've probably had Kontakt crash more often than a compiled HISE plugin.

Kontakt might be more mainstream and "everywhere" but it has a paywall for your users unless you make a player library which then costs YOU money 🤔

And as a developer I'd prefer the tools to work with me and not against me. That we even have to recommend a third party intermediate language is laughable in my opinion.

The only real reason I can think of for using Kontakt at this point is if you really have to use some of the built in effects that HISE doesn't have, or time stretching.
 

EvilDragon

KSP Wizard
And also don't forget that for many, many, many people, Kontakt acts as a hub to all their sample library. Simply because there's so many libraries available for it. Every new HISE library is a separate plugin (to my understanding - do correct me if I'm wrong), which eventually would (and I assume will) bloat everyone's plugin lists in DAWs, etc...

Also, try doing bigger libraries (dozens of thousands of samples in a single instrument, lots of groups, modulation and FX going on), then tell me how HISE fares. :)

Not to mention it has a proper WYSIWYG GUI editor and debugging tools.
Kontakt also has debugging tools (Creator Tools).

Kontakt might be more mainstream
"Might"? It has a huge number of unique installs in the world. People love buying Komplete because of all the goodies, and all the extra available 3rd party stuff for Kontakt doesn't hurt. :)

if you really have to use some of the built in effects that HISE doesn't have, or time stretching.
Or some of the actual KSP functionality, like the recently added user zones and drag&drop samples directly on the GUI, MIR functions, XY pads, dynamically reordering FX without needing to resort to C++ (according to documentation I found you have to do this if you want that in your library?)... etc. Or use LFOs that go above 10 Hz without resorting to the source code of the sampler or scripting your own, heh...


Yeah, I know I'm biased. I have every right to be. :P
 
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d.healey

Music Monkey
Kontakt might be more mainstream and "everywhere" but it has a paywall for your users unless you make a player library which then costs YOU money 🤔
If you're developing a non-free plugin (closed source) with HISE then it will also cost you money. Although it's less overall than a Kontakt player license from what I understand.