Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by eboats, Dec 4, 2017.
Huh? Really!? Never heard of anything like that...
That compatibility ends with NKIs made for Kontakt 4.2 and above, since NI didn't disclose the new binary format to anyone. So... you can't really use any library released in the past 5+ years in S1... And you definitely cannot use KP encoded libraries in it, even if it's a very old one (<K4).
Presence sampler in S1 supports importing older NKI files which are not the binary format introduced in K4.2 and all versions up to this day. Also supports EXS and Giga files.
One thing worth mentioning is that if you have the full version of Kontakt, that means you can get tons of high quality FREE Kontakt instruments.
Second, if you have certain Kontakt Free Player libraries, you will be able to crossgrade to Kontakt at a discount. This includes the free library from Sennheiser, "DrumMic'a."
I'd like to make a comparison between Kontakt and an art gallery.
There's an art gallery that has four wings. You can visit one wing for free, or all the wings for a $15 admission fee. In that free wing, you'll see some truly beautiful artwork for sale, but there are three more wings full of artwork for sale. You have a choice to make. Either hang on to your $15 and limit yourself to purchasing art from the free wing, or pay the admission fee to open up your choices to the entire gallery.
When you buy the full version of Kontakt, you're opening your purchase choices to include every Kontakt instrument in the world, and that includes world-class libraries like Insolidus, Century Brass, Majestica, Rhapsody Orchestral Percussion, Piano in Blue, Dominus, Adagio Strings, Olympus Symphonic, and the list goes on. @eboats , you may not see any advantage in that -- at least not yet -- and that's okay. But most of us are glad to own the full version of Kontakt for one reason or another, and wouldn't have it any other way.
I think in contextualizing Kontakt Player, it's worth pointing out that Kontakt has a history of being an open, user-driven platform that long predates Player, and that Player is NI's attempt to make this already-existing ecosystem accessible and attractive to hobbyists. The original Kontakt community was built by pros, devs, and gear heads -- people for whom the buy-in price wasn't a huge deterrent -- and that history continues to resonate in Kontakt's pricing and in the structure of the current Kontakt library market. Player adds more hobbyists to that mix, but you can't reasonably expect that the entire existing Kontakt ecosystem will suddenly cater entirely to these newcomers.
I don't think any developers answered my below question, so maybe this isn't the right forum. What I'm hearing is that Kontakt free is a pain for developers, costs them too much and isn't a good solution for their needs, but as a software engineer and musician for 25 years, I see everyday that new tech is always changing and "disrupting" old standards/apps. It sounds like there is currently no viable hosting alternative to Kontakt for developers, which seems like a heck of an opportunity for someone to provide an affordable hosting solution (decoupled from content) to both developers and users.
"Question for developers: are there any other hosting environment options for your libraries besides Kontakt that work better for your business model, or does Kontakt have a monopoly and charge you whatever they want? I know others like VSL, Garritan etc. have their own players and don't do the Kontakt thing so wondering"
I'm not a dev, but my impression is that while other non-proprietary platforms are available (e.g. UVI Workstation/Falcon, HALion, ESX24, HISE, Soundfont), none of them has the maturity or market penetration that Kontakt does, and people will tend to buy Kontakt versions over the others if Kontakt versions are available. It's less that Kontakt is a monopoly and more that it's the current industry standard.
With the exception of the VSL sampler, which everyone loves, everyone on the user end pretty much prefers Kontakt to proprietary solutions to such a degree that it's reasonable to expect people to cite the use of a proprietary sampler as a reason not to buy a library. In at least one case (EW Play), the proprietary sampler only exists in the first place because the dev objected to NI's loose copy-protection practices rather than to Kontakt as a sampler. On the dev side of things, a proprietary sampler requires a dev team to maintain it, which means you're going to spend a lot of money and probably still come up short of Kontakt in terms of performance.
EDIT: To speak very broadly here, the only people who are substantially unhappy with Kontakt are the people who don't own it.
I stand corrected, then.
From a consumer standpoint, I could definitely see the appeal of having a stripped-down version of Kontakt for maybe $150 that plays non-Player libraries but doesn't allow editing. The issue here is that NI started out with a program, Kompakt, that was sort of similar to this idea, but they killed it off fairly early on (2006), presumably because it mostly duplicated features that already existed in Kontakt. And Player is obviously more lucrative for NI than a reimagined Kompakt would be, because Player lets them take a share of every library license sold, and a new Kompakt would mostly just cannibalize the sales of full Kontakt, which seems to be selling just fine despite its price (and/or is just driving people up a price bracket to Komplete).
The situation definitely sucks, though, for people for whom Kontakt is just slightly too expensive to justify buying.
What about a Kontakt version that plays non-Player libraries and allows editing, but doesn't come bundled with all the factory sounds. So really just a sample player/editor host for 3rd party libraries. Seems like that may not cost as much. Not sure if the bulk of the Kontakt cost is due to the all the included factory sounds that you're getting (which may or may not be useful to you depending on what libs you already have, not to mention what hardware synths/samplers you already have!).
My suspicion is that Kontakt's price is mostly a holdover from the days when it was targeted at niche users and that they've kept the price where it is because with Kontakt being a piece of kit that everyone acknowledges is essential, they can get away with it. The fact that NI hasn't updated the factory soundbank in forever suggests that they know nobody cares about it.
The price of Kontakt is not that much in its factory library.
I don't think it's a considerable expense in the grand scheme of things in the VI world ... and it's quite simple, if you have no interest/need in buying full Kontakt, then don't.
Lots of pro info here.
If kontakt player and protected libraries are such a nightmare for developers, what is the likelihood of komplete kontrol turning into a standard tool in the industry, just like kontakt is right now? (I AM SORRY IF I AM HIJACKING THE CONVERSATION). After trying out the spitfire libraries in nks, I find this brought a lot of awesome features not present before. Specially the seamless feedback between library parameters and the kontrol surface knobs and buttons.
The big downside of the komplete kontrol is the limitation to a single instrument per instance and the limitation to a single computer. Do you see any of these two features ever been developed and working?
What if kontakt eventually is capable of connecting to the komplete kontrol hardware just like komplete kontrol software does? It would be even more of a standard tool but essential. (Well, I think kontakt already is essential)
I don't understand what are the technical limitations to create another vst to host kontakt? Why not build komplete kontrol inside kontakt?
In other threads EvilDragon mentioned that komplete kontrol is not suitable for large templates. What is your take on this guys? Would this be a reason why komplete kontrol will fail at taking the industry again?
It's just that, if just like this conversation is showing and there are lots of people judging weather they should or not buy a full version of a software considered standard in the industry, what if komplete kontrol turns out to be eventually another addition to the "standard stuff" just like kontakt is already?
You really think one would buy the full Kontakt for the factory sounds? Then yeah maybe you only need Kontakt Player then, which is fine.
One is a nice sample player, the other is one of, if the the best *sampler* out there.
It is amusing to read this thread as a tiny time freebie / indy dev for Kontakt and Maize Sampler. I've had to disappoint many people across the years explaining that my stuff doesn't work with Player because I'm poor and paying 10-20 bucks per instrument download ain't happening.
While I don't do player, almost all the tech support stuff comes on Maize. Kontakt is just release and forget (if you aren't an inveterate thinker). Maize has problem after problem and people not knowing how to unzip into their VST directory or even use a DAW.
As far as other options, many require a commercial release and have a dongle. SFZ is somewhat booming in freeware but it isn't as easy to create nice interfaces/modwheel crossfades as Kontakt. HISE might change some of that but I personally have had issues trying to get it to work. Also Kontakt has Evil Dragon and for me Matt McKay to help script idiots(me) make Kontakt do cool things along with scripts that do wonderful things from the developer and from great indy scripters that we free guys can use. There just isn't any other system like that in music software.
At this point I can mostly do convo reverb, fake legato, fake ensembles, fake round robins, modwheel cross-fades, EQ, ADSR envelope control and other stuff as a bearly knowledgable freebie dev with Kontakt. This makes for fun to create instruments and hopefully fun to play instruments for free. No other platform seems to allow this.
KK can be installed on two computers, like most other NI software. Except Komplete bundle, which can be installed on three.
Thanks for you answer EvilDragon.... I did know about that somehow, because I installed all of NI stuff in both computers. But, as I understand, KK would not be able to konnect using VEP6 if KK hosted on a slave correct? has this changed recently?
Thanks again in advance.
I'm not really sure there is a strong enough to demand for a "hosting solution". It certainly doesnt seem like it. Kontakt is the industry standard, and rightfully so. Btw, I spent $700 for Komplete Ultimate 10, and as a whole, it was the most inexpensive piece of software Ive ever purchased. Zero complaints here, and I think most people feel the same.
I am just a hobbyist, but I have the Kontakt full version. I will admit that buying Komplete Ultimate, even on sale, was probably not a good use of my money. But I own and use a lot of Kontakt libraries on pretty much everything I do, and most of my favorites do not work with the player. The fact that you don't want to/can't afford to pay for the player doesn't mean the full version isn't worth it to those of us who can afford it. It just means that you are limited to the companies who don't mind making a player version. Kontakt is a very stable product so I totally understand why the developers use it. Why waste your time building a mousetrap that won't be better than one already out there, when you can spend it making better cheese.
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