Kirk Hunter and the NI Player License

Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by robgb, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. robgb

    robgb I was young once

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    I'm not a developer, so I have no idea what a player license costs, but apparently it's pretty expensive, because Kirk Hunter is having another sale on his Virtuoso Ensembles, only this time it's a NON-player version because "we have decided to discontinue the Kontakt Player version due to the exorbitant costs of getting more serials..."

    People have speculated that a license is only about $25, but that sounds unlikely.

    That said, Virtuoso Ensembles for $79 is a steal. Excellent library.
     
    sostenuto likes this.
  2. Rob

    Rob Senior Member

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    Rob, do you happen to know if these are new samples or a repackaging of preexisting stuff?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  3. mouse

    mouse Active Member

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    As far as I know, the new pricing is a small fee and % of the cost of the product. So it doesn't allow for massive discounts
     
  4. OP
    OP
    robgb

    robgb I was young once

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    I can't be sure, but I can say that it does sound different from his other libraries, particularly the woodwinds, which are excellent. That said, even if it is the same samples, the scripting is the key, in my opinion.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    robgb

    robgb I was young once

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    The royalty payment is what would kill it for me if I was a developer. No wonder so many decide to forego Player.
     
  6. Rob

    Rob Senior Member

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    thanks
     
  7. Wally Garten

    Wally Garten Active Member

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  8. zircon_st

    zircon_st Lead Developer

    The fee depends on two factors; MSRP, and the number of keys you order. Technically, it's not a royalty at all. You pay for X keys with a lump sum. After you run out, you have to order more. NI has generally lowered these costs significantly over time. However, older libraries are locked into contracts which might make their per-key cost 2-3x higher than they would be with a new contract today.
     
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  9. Mike Greene

    Mike Greene Administrator

    Because of NDAs, I can't get too specific, but that $20 is a bit (although not a very big bit) more than the fee I pay to NI ... but that fee is from the old NI KPlayer fee structure, back when they picked a number out of a hat and that's the fee you pay. (My license fee for the more expensive Ladies is actually less than for Blue. Go figure.)

    Like Andrew (ISW) said, older libraries like the Ladies and Blue are locked into the old fees, so I'm stuck with that. I used to charge a bit less than what my fee was, but tech support for people who buy the KPlayer versions of the Ladies or Blue is way higher than for people who buy the non-KPlayer versions, so I now round up, rather than down.

    The new structure they instituted a few years ago is much, much more reasonable. With NDAs and all, I can't get too specific, but for a hundred dollar library, the license fee would probably be under 5 bucks.
     
  10. AllanH

    AllanH Senior Member

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    Interesting information from Mike and ISW. I wonder if the "bulk purchase of licensing" is getting in the way. With Google and Apple, you certainly pay as you-get-customers. NI seems stuck in the past, somehow. I recall one of the recent sales where Spitfire ran out of licenses and had to wait days. That's really unacceptable, not to mention antiquated.
     
  11. Tod

    Tod Senior Member

    So what would you speculate the total cost might be Mike, for a new instrument that would sell for close to $150.
     
  12. Mike Greene

    Mike Greene Administrator

    That's not something I'm allowed to say, but it's easy enough to contact NI and ask them directly.
     
  13. Tod

    Tod Senior Member

    Aah okay, part of the NDA. Thanks Mike, I have already contacted them.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    robgb

    robgb I was young once

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    Hmm. So why is KH talking about "exorbitant" fees? If the normal price of his library is $300, I can't imagine the fees being that high. Strange
     
  15. MartinH.

    MartinH. Senior Member

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    Maybe it's because the fees for the keys need to be paid upfront even if the keys don't end up being sold and it's a bit of a gamble how many you buy? Or maybe that library is still "trapped" in an old contract that costs significantly more per key than current libraries?
     
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  16. Polkasound

    Polkasound Senior Member

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    Even if the fee per license were only $10-$15, it really adds up when you have to purchase them in batches. If sales of KH's library slowed down to a trickle before the player licenses sold out, then it wouldn't make sense for him to drop hundreds or even thousands of dollars for another batch of licenses. That's probably what he meant by "exorbitant costs."
     
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  17. Quasar

    Quasar Senior Member

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    I already have KH Virtuoso Ensembles, and it is an excellent library, but (because of NI's Native Access malware) I would much rather have a full Kontakt version than the Player version I have now.

    Does anyone know if current owners can upgrade to the uninfested edition for free? At Kirk Hunter's site, I clicked to request that the download links be resent, but it appears that my new download would still be tied to the NA serial number.
     
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  18. Polkasound

    Polkasound Senior Member

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    If you already have KH Virtuoso Ensembles installed, then replacing it with a non-NI-infested copy would be redundant since both versions can be used offline. Regardless, it wouldn't hurt to send Kirk an email to explain your situation and ask for a non-infested copy.
     
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  19. Quasar

    Quasar Senior Member

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    Yes, I do have it installed as a player library and it works fine. I'm really just just chasing my tail, because I want OUT from under the auspices of Native Access, yet still want to continue to use Kontakt and the libraries I have that require it. I obviously can't have it both ways, so I all I can do is vent my unending rage on forums and hope in vain that NI will return to something akin to their old Service Center system with offline activation.

    In the meantime KUDOS to Kirk Hunter and the other developers who don't pay Kontakt Player fees. I only wish that all developers would follow suit...
     
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