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I've started making my first Kontakt Sample library! Any advice?

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jononotbono

jononotbono

Luke Johnson
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YouTube is so amazing. There is a guy David Hilowitz who has a channel and teaches so much about Kontakt sampling. Explains things so well. One of the best resources I have found for sure! It's eye opening and how specific functions I didn't think would be possible for me to learn how to script is probably going to happen now!

Anyone got any other recommendations for YouTube channels teaching this stuff? Spitfire have released a few which have been useful too and I am just catching up with the whole Pianobook thing as I've not really had the time over the past 2 years to pay attention to it! Pretty amazing stuff that's going on!
 

davidnaroth

Naroth Audio
Congrats! This forum has plenty of great people and kontakt wizards kind enough to give advice. I did a similar thing last year, I had always built my own little instruments over the years, and always had a great time doing it, so I figured why not start something. It's always fun to step into something new. Organizing and forming an LLC did give me a headache though ha.
 

Noeticus

Motion Picture Producer
Luke,

My only advice is that if there are Legato patches, then expect people here to go nuts complaining about them even if they are perfect.

o_Oo_Oo_Oo_O
 
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jononotbono

jononotbono

Luke Johnson
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Luke,

My only advice is that if there are Legato patches, then expect people here to go nuts complaining about them even if they are perfect.

o_Oo_Oo_Oo_O
Well there are so many types of Legato with all these developers. Performance Legato. Legato Performance. Magical Power Legato. The list goes on.

Mine will be called Imperfect Legato.

If people still complain, I'll make sure there's a complaints box on my website and promise that there will be as much chance as me looking in that box as there is of Santa Clause reading their letters at Christmas.

Couldn't be fairer than that now could I?
 

Will Blackburn

Senior Member
Luke,

My only advice is that if there are Legato patches, then expect people here to go nuts complaining about them even if they are perfect.

o_Oo_Oo_Oo_O

Hmmm i think they have a valid point though. The most playable Legato i have tried is still from LASS First Chairs and that is roughly a decade old? Nothing since then has come anywhere close to that imo. The bar was set and everything since then has fallen short.
 
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jononotbono

jononotbono

Luke Johnson
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Hmmm i think they have a valid point though. The most playable Legato i have tried is still from LASS First Chairs and that is roughly a decade old? Nothing since then has come anywhere close to that imo. The bar was set and everything since then has fallen short.
One of the main libraries I have never bought is LASS. I've always been so tempted but as time has gone on and newer libraries have come out I've found myself waiting for LASS 3. Is LASS 3 Modern Scoring Strings? Or Is that a different library?

Also talking about legatos. You say nothing has come anywhere close to LASS but what about CSS? People absolutely love CSS.

Anyway, I'm not making a library with String legatos so I'm safe. From that specific scrutiny anyway. 😂
 

Noeticus

Motion Picture Producer
LASS 3 and MSS are not the same library. MSS is out now.

LASS 3 might come out later this year... maybe.
 
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jononotbono

jononotbono

Luke Johnson
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And the brain melting continues. I've got myself a low and high pass filter each with resonance controls, scripted no repeat round robins and now, on to ADHSR. Obviously just using default generic knobs and stuff as I learn this but learning custom GUI stuff comes soon for sure! :)

Screenshot 2021-04-16 at 18.50.17.png
 

Lindon

VST/AU Developer
I've spent nearly 20 years building Sample libraries, and built many hundreds of Kontakt libraries for myself and for customers, my advice to you would be.... dont do it in Kontakt.
 

Will Blackburn

Senior Member
I've spent nearly 20 years building Sample libraries, and built many hundreds of Kontakt libraries for myself and for customers, my advice to you would be.... dont do it in Kontakt.
Would like to ask why as well. Could you PM if not wishing to express publicly? I don't see any alternatives out there at the moment with the install base that makes it viable.
 
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jononotbono

jononotbono

Luke Johnson
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I've spent nearly 20 years building Sample libraries, and built many hundreds of Kontakt libraries for myself and for customers, my advice to you would be.... dont do it in Kontakt.
How come?

You've spent 20 years building sample libraries? That's a long time! Many hundreds of Kontakt Libraries? That's a lot!

Why not? What have you learned? Have you written any music with the 20 years and hundreds of libraries you've built?
 

d.healey

Senior Member
You writing great music with libraries using with HISE? Is anyone?
Of course! All my music is great.

Hexeract, PercX, NeoSoul Keys, Felt Instruments, Sampleson, Mntra Instruments - these are all built with HISE. I'm sure someone is using them. I've sold quite a few myself, I hope they're being put to good use!

They're just plugins, the tool that is used to make them doesn't really matter to the end user.

Kontakt is a locked down proprietary system, HISE is open source, you can add anything you want to it (well almost). I wouldn't recommend HISE unless you have a lot of time to invest in building your libraries. If it's just something for your own use or a small quantity of sales then use Kontakt or SFZ or another sampler, it will be much faster and easier. If you're in this for the long haul, you don't need time stretching, and you want to make plugins (not NKIs) then check out HISE, the learning curve for non-programmers is steep but worthwhile.

YES. Exactly. Why? Imagine actually making a library with a sampler many people use?
HISE isn't a sampler for the end user. It's a tool for making plugins, they don't have to be sample based, they don't even have to be instruments, you can make effects with it too.
 
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proxima

Active Member
Hexeract, PercX, NeoSoul Keys, Felt Instruments, Sampleson, Mntra Instruments - these are all built with HISE. I'm sure someone is using them. I've sold quite a few myself, I hope they're being put to good use!
Ah, I was curious what platform PercX was built on, since it's a rather unique UI (sometimes a little too unique - I go long enough between using it that I have to figure it out a little bit each time). Still, it's certainly a strong endorsement of HISE's ability to make a really interesting VST/AU.
 

Lindon

VST/AU Developer
So why not? :
Well I'm sure many people will hold different opinions (which are all valid I'm sure) but:

1. Kontakt's scripting language (KSP) is (I have come to think) not fit for purpose, you will spend many many long hours of frustration with it. Hours that could usefully be spent elsewhere.
2. Kontakt is a closed shop product - I will agree that it has a very large customer base (tho of course no where near the size of the VST, AU and AAX plugin base), but NI only make changes they want and need - and dont listen to you the 3rd-party developer
3. Its expensive to get to a larger audience. Sure I can build my product and get NI to encode it for me so it works on the Kontakt Player - but that's not cheap (for multiple product releases - including versions of your single product; version 1.01 costs you as much in encoding as 1.0) and requires yet-another-download (the player) for your users...
4. It's "just" a sampler - sure it's a powerful sampler and well worn in, but I cant build anything other than things that use wav files - so I cant leverage my KSP expertise in to synths or effects.
5. If I'm not paying NI for the player-based privileges then my audio data is easy to access and steal

Have I made music with these hundreds of Kontakt products? Yes - but I stopped making (a very poor) living from making music long ago - I make my living building audio products -initially in Kontakt, and now (as David points out) in HISE.

So after 20 years of doing this - as a living - I eventually found a realistic viable alternative platform to build products on, and to make a living selling either those products or my development services ( these days its mostly this gun-for-hire stuff if I'm honest).

I'm sure there are many people here who find Kontakt perfectly acceptable as a platform, and good luck to you, I've been here in this sub-forum for a very long time and spent a long time using and abusing Kontakt, so I used to be in this group of people.

But if you want to make a living (or have any sort of shot at it) building audio products, I offer you my advice - skip the Kontakt-built products step - do some research, there are better platforms to invest your efforts in.
 
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