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Is the Albion bundle redundant if i have Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra and Komplete11?

JohnG

Senior Member
I think it behooves any recording composer today to learn how to deal with dry samples and the basic techniques of mixing.

Rob? This again?

I think this is totally wrong and misleading to any beginning composer interested in orchestral writing. Songs, maybe.
 

robgb

Inspiration is for amateurs
Rob? This again?

I think this is totally wrong and misleading to any beginning composer interested in orchestral writing. Songs, maybe.
Yes, this again, always and forever. If you're recording your own work you need to understand the fundamentals of recording and mixing. I can't stress it enough. To suggest otherwise is to do a grave disservice to any recording composer.
 

JohnG

Senior Member
I think it's terrible advice for would-be orchestral composers.

If you're recording your own work you need to understand the fundamentals of recording and mixing.

I don't agree that recording and mixing needs to be a core skill of an orchestral composer. Unless you are mostly focused on songwriting, recording and mixing skills are very helpful but not required.

For writing score or concert pieces, it's nice to know about recording and mixing. It's helpful, useful, and informative. But there are engineers available. I would go further and say that it's advisable, maybe indispensable for any composer who's recording more than a handful of players to employ an engineer so the composer can focus on the musical aspects of the performance, not the recording tasks.

And, even if one accepts your premise about recording your own music, it does not follow that one should favour close-mic'd sample orchestral libraries ("dry samples" in your words). Efforts I heard of those trying to make a close-mic'd library sound as though it was recorded in space never sound correct to me. No matter how many reverbs and early reflections and EQ and other tricks are applied, they don't sound the same.

Pick your favourite composer -- Hans records at Air in London because of the hall. John Williams recorded "Memoirs of a Geisha" and other scores at Royce Hall in Los Angeles because of the sound.
 

robgb

Inspiration is for amateurs
I don't agree that recording and mixing needs to be a core skill of an orchestral composer.

It doesn't, if you intend to use a real orchestra and never record your own work. Or if your mock-up is meant only as a demo of what's to come. Unfortunately, most composers today don't have the luxury of making only demos or using live players.

For writing score or concert pieces, it's nice to know about recording and mixing. It's helpful, useful, and informative. But there are engineers available. I would go further and say that it's advisable, maybe indispensable for any composer who's recording more than a handful of players to employ an engineer so the composer can focus on the musical aspects of the performance, not the recording tasks.

And, even if one accepts your premise about recording your own music, it does not follow that one should favour close-mic'd sample orchestral libraries ("dry samples" in your words). Efforts I heard of those trying to make a close-mic'd library sound as though it was recorded in space never sound correct to me. No matter how many reverbs and early reflections and EQ and other tricks are applied, they don't sound the same.

Pick your favourite composer -- Hans records at Air in London because of the hall. John Williams recorded "Memoirs of a Geisha" and other scores at Royce Hall in Los Angeles because of the sound.
I've heard plenty recordings using close-mic'd samples that sound wonderful, just as I've heard plenty using baked-in halls that sounded bad. And this more than likely comes down to the fact that the person doing the mock-up either did or did not bother to take the time to properly mix the recording.

Creating orchestral mock-ups often comes down to using a variety of different samples from a variety of sample libraries, and getting them to blend properly is an art in itself.

To suggest that orchestral mock-ups don't need to be properly mixed is, frankly, ridiculous. And to suggest that mixing is only about "the hall" is naive. Mixing is about getting the best out of what you've recorded. Understanding when and when not to use compression and EQ, how to balance the recording, etc. I doubt there's an orchestral recording out there—especially those used in film or on TV—that hasn't been properly mixed by a sound engineer (which might explain why there's an entire industry devoted to it). And in these days of one-man shops, most composers have to be their own sound engineer, and they'd better damn well understand what that means, otherwise they'll be wondering why they never get any work.

I've discussed this at length in the past, so I won't get into it any further than this. You're obviously free to believe what you like, even when you're wrong. :)

In the meantime, you might want to look into this:

http://thinkspaceeducation.com/om/
 

JohnG

Senior Member
We disagree.

I've been scoring for some time now. I don't agree with your conclusions and I think they are bad advice for beginners, including those working with only electronic mockups.
 

robgb

Inspiration is for amateurs
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Goldie Zwecker

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Interesting couple of days i've been through, sonically. On one hand - i got to listen more and more and more to the different albion demos, ark demos, ew HO demos etc. On the other hand i got to spend more time with the spitfire orchestral symphony - and i got this new library for OmnisphereII (Keyscape Creative. Brilliant).
So it got me thinking. First, if i would buy any additional orchestral stuff it would definetly be Albions.
On the other hand i got the feeling i should spend more time with my spitfire library before adding more orchestral stuff.
This aside, i also thought about what i'm missing in the spitfire bundle. As i wrote earlier - mostly choirs, epic/cinematic drums & precussion, harps and all the other stuff which isn't "strings-brass-woodwinds".
And then i came across two interesting libraries/bundles.
The first is Soundiron's Omega Bundle which has about 350GB of different choirs and solo singers, cinematic and experimental percussion, the elysium harp, sound fx, ethnic-cinematic instruments etc etc, and it goes for $999 instead of $7162 for the libraries apart. I've been listening to those and they sound really good to me, and looks like they fill the gap.
Another beautiful library i came across is the Spitfire Swarms which sounds really really awesome and plays well with the Spitfire orchestral stuff. So i'm thinking about these two. We shall see.
 

jacobthestupendous

not that stupendous
The first is Soundiron's Omega Bundle which has about 350GB of different choirs and solo singers, cinematic and experimental percussion, the elysium harp, sound fx, ethnic-cinematic instruments etc etc, and it goes for $999 instead of $7162 for the libraries apart. I've been listening to those and they sound really good to me, and looks like they fill the gap.
If all I needed was percussion and choirs, then I wouldn't think twice about Soundiron's Omega Bundle.
 

ctsai89

Poem of Ecstasy
What an unpleasant thing to say. I have heard some very good music produced with Symphobia. This isn't Gearslutz you know.

sorry.

would you rather me be sweet and fake or honest but mean? It's believable no doubt symphobia is good but comparing it to spitfire especially the albion bundle? no match.
 

Michael Antrum

Only the good die young....
How nice of you to say sorry. So many people don't. I have been married for 26 years, so I am getting quite good at it myself. :grin:
 
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Goldie Zwecker

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Getting all emotional are we?
So anyway, not wanting to start another "flame war" but another thing i'm missing from the SSO is solo strings, which is peculiar. I mean, the spitfire orchestral brass & woodwinds all have their solo instruments as well as ensembles, but not the strings.
Spitfire solo strings is a bit meh and the sacconi quartet - not 100% sure about it.
Any recommendations for solo strings and/or string quartet?
 

Michael Antrum

Only the good die young....
Well I have just seen the deal on the Embertone Solo Strings Collection. It's on offer at $ 200.00. That works out at $50 each for the Violin, Viola, Cello and Bass.

I am sorely tempted too by this myself, as the only solo string instrument I have is the Tina Guo Cello. It seems to be quite well regarded by many on the forum, though the Chris Heins are supposed to edge them.

But for the money it seems to be a very tempting offer.
 
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Goldie Zwecker

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Well I have just seen the deal on the Embertone Solo Strings Collection. It's on offer at $ 200.00. That works out at $50 each for the Violin, Viola, Cello and Bass.
Are you sure about this? Their website shows $500, not $200...
 

Zhao Shen

StormSound
So my questions is do you find it excessive and overkill to have the BML range, and Komplete Ultimate 11, and Omnisphere 2 and add the Albions?

Hmmm... I wouldn't call it excessive. A lot of the Albions have some pretty unique content that won't be covered by what you have (especially 4 and 5, which are quite unique). That said, considering that the SSO is such a fantastic collection, I'd definitely suggest looking elsewhere and maybe try to focus on gathering up some more niche offerings.

Basically, you're already in a very good position with SSO, and buying the Albion collection won't make a huge difference in what you're capable of producing (unless you think you'd use 4 and 5 a decent amount).

Any recommendations for solo strings and/or string quartet?

Nope, in terms of versatility and realism, solo strings are not there yet. They're even lagging behind choirs in that respect. Granted, they're very difficult to sample well. You have 3 main choices that I can see.

1) Stick with Spitfire and grab the Sacconi Quartet.

2) Get CineStrings SOLO, which is the most believable but has some baffling legato sampling choices.

3) Wait it out for however long it takes someone to make a fully competent solo strings library. Cinematic Studio Solo Strings is supposed to be coming out very soon, but they don't announce anything about their products until the day that they're released.
 

ctsai89

Poem of Ecstasy
Getting all emotional are we?
So anyway, not wanting to start another "flame war" but another thing i'm missing from the SSO is solo strings, which is peculiar. I mean, the spitfire orchestral brass & woodwinds all have their solo instruments as well as ensembles, but not the strings.
Spitfire solo strings is a bit meh and the sacconi quartet - not 100% sure about it.
Any recommendations for solo strings and/or string quartet?

chris hein perhaps is worth a look.
 

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
chris hein perhaps is worth a look.

For solo Violins I go between the Hein and the Embertone, each do things better in some ways than the other. The Hein is especially useful for the vibrato control, and once you've mastered the articulation and layers you have a fine instrument. My current string quintet set up is One Hein and one Embertone violin, 1 Adadio solo viola, 1 Emotional Cello, and 1 Adagio Solo Bass. Sounds great to me, and you have nice options with all.
 

ctsai89

Poem of Ecstasy
Partisan Violin/cello from spitfire also look promising, but i don't have it. The sacconi cello can't play higher than A4 so that's one thing that really sucks about it. Not sure why spitfire always leave out some little things to make their libraries imperfect. Kind of annoys me lol
 
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