Menu
What's new
By:
Filters

Is Berlin Brass good for cinematic composing?

whitewasteland said:
Oh I missed that part of the show. Now I understand better :)
Click to expand...
yeah you have to get forensic to find the low dynamics - and since it would involved automating the hell out of the softest parts I just skip using it entirely.

but that's not the "typical" use for brass, so for more "typical" modern brass uses, CSB works great. Some of us favor more traditional orchestration - and that makes the weaknesses of berlin brass matter less and less.

I bought CSB and don't use it :P mainly because chords don't sound good to me with solo or ensemble.
 
tabulius said:
I tried to build a bigger template with Berlin Brass and 64Gb of ram. Bad idea, because that library takes a lot of resources. Also what I hate is how different articulations (staccatos, marcatos, sus and legatos) are not consistent in volume. Long notes top off at mf, shorts play at fff. Working with the library was too slow for me and I haven’t use them much. I might check BB again, when I get a new PC. I just get faster results with other libraries at the moment. Too bad this library isn’t resellable.
Click to expand...

Totally agreed. If I could resell any library it would be Berlin Brass because of the ratio between how much it cost and how much I use it. I have used CSB "under fire" on synthestration work for a TV show and there's no hype here. It's quality. Some comments in this thread confused me... "Less deeply sampled"? I'm not sure what samples are supposed to be missing... "Can't play quiet?" Yes it can't do very, very quiet brass chorales very well but the solo horn can sure knock out the start of Leia's Theme just fine. Maybe on a scale of 1 to 100 it's missing dynamics 1-15, meanwhile Berlin Brass is missing 65-100...

Sure, there's a lot that's quality about Berlin Brass too. It belongs to the generation of libraries that set out to do brass better than Cinebrass & Hollywood Brass and it achieves that with more mic options, more recorded soloists and (IMO) better scripting. The problem is the dynamic limitations and the inconsistency of the samples. If you just want to play a mezzo-forte sustain, you'll find it on a different point on the modwheel for each of the four horns. It's nuts. I cannot imagine how John Powell gets any work done with this library, and I'm tempted to imagine that he just had his guys resample and rescript the whole thing. There's really nothing wrong with the samples themselves.
 
Last edited:
NoamL said:
Totally agreed. If I could resell any library it would be Berlin Brass because of the ratio between how much it cost and how much I use it. I have used CSB "under fire" on synthestration work for a TV show and there's no hype here. It's quality. Some comments in this thread confused me... "Less deeply sampled"? I'm not sure what samples are supposed to be missing... "Can't play quiet?" Yes it can't do very, very quiet brass chorales very well but the solo horn can sure knock out the start of Leia's Theme just fine. Maybe on a scale of 1 to 100 it's missing dynamics 1-15, meanwhile Berlin Brass is missing 65-100...

Sure, there's a lot that's quality about Berlin Brass too. It belongs to the generation of libraries that set out to do brass better than Cinebrass & Hollywood Brass and it achieves that with more mic options, more recorded soloists and (IMO) better scripting. The problem is the dynamic limitations and the inconsistency of the samples. If you just want to play a mezzo-forte sustain, you'll find it on a different point on the modwheel for each of the four horns. It's nuts. I cannot imagine how John Powell gets any work done with this library, and I'm tempted to imagine that he just had his guys resample and rescript the whole thing. There's really nothing wrong with the samples themselves.
Click to expand...
Strange to see people dislike Berlin Brass, really puts me off buying it when I already have CSB, but can't help but feel like CSB doesn't cover everything I need. People say they ditched Berlin Brass and their Cinebrass for CSB but I'm on the other hand considering them because the trumpets in CSB just don't have that same Hollywood bite that BB and CB do. Soft mellow brass swells are also really hard to do with CSB which BB even has as an actual recorded articulation.

Am I right thinking that Berlin Brass is the best thing on the market for John Williams/John Powell kind of music, and the Berlin Series overall is great for animation films and Marvel style soundtracks (where they are 99% traditional orchestral)
 
whitewasteland said:
My point is there is no absolute winner !
Click to expand...
Exactly, otherwise all the remaining sample library creators would go bankrupt. It's like asking what type of car is best to buy. How can one design fit everything? An Aston Martin DB11 doesn't help a soccer mom with six kids (I'm expecting some creative replies from that statement, lol!). :grin:
 
jeremiahpena said:
CSB is definitely better for those sorts of fanfare style melodies. Every instrument has a marcato patch that is very playable. With Berlin Brass you need to construct those from different lengths of shorts with keyswitches. CSB also gets louder and more brassy than Berlin Brass. When I needed those really loud bits with Berlin Brass I had to turn to Metropolis Ark 1 instead.

Here's a couple of tracks that only use CSB. They're not very march-like, but they do have some loud trumpet parts.



Click to expand...


Excellent work and great sound, thanks Jeremiahpena!
 
EvilDragon said:
I feel this thread should be moved to Sample Talk, as it's not really directly Kontakt related.
Click to expand...
tenor.gif
 
I saved and waited for a sale for Berlin Brass. I did consider Cinematic Studio Brass, especially with how great the strings are but the tone didn't grab me. I also explicitly wanted the separate players that Berlin Brass provides and I'm pretty happy.

I agree that the cost in both money and time for Berlin Brass is high and I would steer Cinematic Studio Brass to anyone who wants a specific brass option. Don't overlook the Berlin Brass mutes though, which are quite fantasic.
 
jeremiahpena said:
CSB is definitely better for those sorts of fanfare style melodies. Every instrument has a marcato patch that is very playable. With Berlin Brass you need to construct those from different lengths of shorts with keyswitches. CSB also gets louder and more brassy than Berlin Brass. When I needed those really loud bits with Berlin Brass I had to turn to Metropolis Ark 1 instead.

Here's a couple of tracks that only use CSB. They're not very march-like, but they do have some loud trumpet parts.



Click to expand...


Nice works....What are the strings and woodwinds used here?
 
This just proves my recent revelation that intricate reverb setups aren't really necessary. I hardly bother adding reverb to my tracks anymore, as the baked-in reverberance from the samples already sounds good. Maybe a liiiiiiiittle bit at the end to extend the tail. IIRC Andy Blaney also doesn't use any reverb for his tracks.

I think the lighter the touch, the better the results. Let the beautifully recorded samples speak for themselves.

@jeremiahpena as an aside, I love your work on JWEvo. Feels right at place with the Jurassic universe.
 
Geocranium said:
This just proves my recent revelation that intricate reverb setups aren't really necessary. I hardly bother adding reverb to my tracks anymore, as the baked-in reverberance from the samples already sounds good. Maybe a liiiiiiiittle bit at the end to extend the tail. IIRC Andy Blaney also doesn't use any reverb for his tracks.
Click to expand...

100% agree! your are obsoletely right that on many good recorded library using reverb aren't really necessary!
 
It’s not just a ‘volume/loudness issue. You’ll find that when you have a very dense or a very large orchestration you’ll find that you need to start prioritizing which instruments will favor which frequencies. Then you can ‘carve out’ some of the less important frequencies in certain instruments to make room for those in others.
 
cipijazz said:
I agree, he is. I saw the entire video and I loved it but what I didn't see is exactly what I've asked. Composer like him are not afraid of revealing the "secrets" as you called them. But maybe you could help me as well. When I compose in Logic everything starts to feels very loud and crowded after adding more and more instruments, it is fighting for space, here is one of my latest tracks if you could please hear it (here). So I Assume the solution is to start with faders very low and then mix from them, or perhaps something else. But Jeremiah is one of few that can control the dynamics of his mockups so well, although he spend a lots of time correcting the cc's which is totally wort it. Best regards, Vladan.
Click to expand...

Like Tmhuud said, you need to leave space for all of the sections. Here's RttLE's piano roll so you can see how most of the parts occupy their own range:

Another common problem I see is making the dynamics of everything too high. When you want things quiet, don't be afraid to only use the bottom 20% of the mod wheel/velocity. And reserve the top 20% for only truly loud moments. Most forte writing can comfortably sit around 75-100 on the mod wheel (depending on the library of course).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom