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Is a Bricasti Worth It?

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Prockamanisc

Prockamanisc

Senior Member
Is anybody using their Bricasti with VEP? Does that complicate the routing at all? I'm wondering about how, say, a VSL orchestra would sound if it were panned and everything within MIR, then returned as a stereo track in Cubase. Would it sound terrible if that audio was then sent to the Bricasti as a send? Or would I just have to skip out on the MIR part?
 

benatural

Active Member
I have one and I use it as my main verb. All I can provide is my subjective opinion, but ever since I got it I no longer have to struggle to get a lush and transparent reverb sound. It could be due to a lack of mixing chops, I'm sure that's part of it. I find it a huge time saver.
 
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MPortmann

Member
I can imagine that it would be tough to have only a single Bricasti, but I figure I can make the best of it if I use it as my main reverb. Was the sound tangibly better, would you say? Do you feel like your tracks have diminished in quality in any way since selling it?
Tangibly better perhaps depending on the type of music. If I was recording live solo piano or Chris Botti trumpet in intimate style, yes it's that much better and easier to get that lush sound. For the dense type of music I'm working on now (trailers, big cinematic) no not really, I'm not missing anything. When I came up the ranks, many of the producers and engineers I worked with used heavy amounts of reverb. I'm still trying to use reverb sparingly and only when necessary, based on what the music needs. There are many alternative ways to create space and dimension in tracks besides reverb, use of delays, arrangements, different orchestration techniques, etc....

Maybe there's possibility to rent a bricasti if you're in a location where that's available? I found one to rent online prior to buying. Sold me when I heard it. If it inspires you to create and make music, then great.
 

hueynym

New Member
I'm wondering if I should get a Bricasti. I have Altiverb and use VSL and Spitfire primarily. Does anyone have experience with and who can tell me if it sounds as good as people say? Is it worth the cost?
With the "Black Friday" pricing of the the Design System 4 being a ridiculously low $14,980, it falls very closely to a
"no brainer." Then you don't need to bother with linking M7s. It's neat and tidy, and the ..sound..
 
What the Bricasti M7 does better than anything else is integrate the reverb sound with the source. Most plug-ins I own (Lex, Seventh Heaven, Exponential, Altiverb, etc.) are all great reverbs but the reverb signal seems more appended to the source, more sitting on top of, rather than fully in it. With plug-ins I can hear the dry source and reverb almost as two separate entities. For example, if I heard someone playing a nylon string guitar in a church, the guitar and the church's natural reverb would be heard more or less as a single entity. This is what the M7 accomplishes. If you do a search for Casey and Bricasti on the Gearslutz Forum, you'll find where he talks about how Bricasti made it a point with their product to have it meld with the source sound. To me this is what separates the M7 from every other reverb on the market, plug-in or hardware verb. I have a single M7 that I got 3 years ago and it's the best product I've ever bought for my studio. I just wish I bought it when it first came out. I wonder if Alan Meyerson would consider mixing with plug-ins as main reverbs. I'm sure he'd do a fantastic job since he is so talented, but he chose the Bricasti's because he thinks they are the best. Seventh Heaven is damn good, but it doesn't live and breath and blend with the source like a real Bricasti M7.
 

Thorgod10

New Member
Well the Bricasti is often treated as an ongoing investment than a one time painful purchase. (A good amount of people finance them at around 100-350 a month) and when they don't need it anymore, they'll sell it.
The thing about the Bricasti is that while software reverbs can obtain a similar quality of result, the amount of work and extra processing for each source to obtain such a clean sound pales in comparison to the ease at which the M7 brings out of box perfection.
When paying for the M7, you are paying for an immediate blend of the reverb and its source, something that can take a considerable amount of mixing time when dealing with software....and well....
Time is money ;)
 

jmauz

Active Member
Another thing to consider is the inspiration you might get from using an outboard piece of gear vs. a plugin. Sure it might be subconscious but so what? If it inspires your creativity and work ethic then it's a great investment IMO. For me personally, composing/production fulfills both sides of my brain...that's one of the big reasons why I started out in the first place. I'd get bored if all I did was engineer and I'd get bored if all I did was write. The combination of both is what I love about being a media composer.
 

wst3

my office these days
Moderator
my two cents...

It is a remarkable digital reverb, and while there is not better/worse between the M7 and other top tier digital reverbs, there are differences.

So my answer would be that it is worth it if:
(1) you prefer it to the sound of other top tier reverbs, hardware or software
-and-
(2) it improves your ability to sell your music.

Please note I did not say "it improves your mixes" - that's really immaterial at that price point. It is only a worthwhile investment if it makes it easier for you to earn money.

If money is no object then it's a personal preference.

It really is that simple, to me anyway.

As an analog, I just spent a month evaluating small capsule condenser microphones, among them a pair of borrowed KM-84s. There is no doubt in my mind that they provided the sound I was chasing after better, and easier, than any of the other microphones I tried. IF I were still recording for a living I'd buy them because they would help to differentiate my studio and my productions. Yes, they are that cool.

But I didn't buy them, and I have no plans to do so for now. They won't help me earn money. And a decent pair is going to set me back $3K or more, and they are 40 years old, with all the potential problems a 40 year old microphone present.

The exercise was worthwhile though, because I learned that my KM-84 fetish is not all in my head, they really do sound as good as I remember. And they really are a small step above anything else I tried. But they are not worth $3K to me right now.

I will continue to use my Earthworks SR71s, which compared surprisingly favorably to the KM-84, although they are a LOT more difficult to place. I also picked up a pair of (new) Telefunken M60s, which are probably about as close as I can get for $1K, which I do think is a reasonable investment, since it will improve the sound of my guitar tracks, and they were easier to place than the SR-71s. I also learned a lot about my pair of AKG C-451s and my pair of Audio Technica AT-4031s. The AKG microphones sound different (I think I knew that already<G>), but it is a sound that will sit well in some mixes. The AT-4031s fared quite well on strummed and flatpicked guitar, but are just not up to the task of recording finger-style.

If I were to start recording others for a living, or selling a lot of guitar focused tracks I'd have to reconsider. I'd also have to borrow a pair of Schoeps CMC6/MK41s and maybe a pair of DPA 4011s. Same price range as the used KM-84s, but still available new.

When you reach the point that you are considering a Bricasti M7 or a Manley Variable Mu or even a $3K pair of microphones it is a two part question - do they work for you, and are they a reasonable investment in your business, and unless you hit the lottery I don't think you can ignore one or the other.
 

Gerhard Westphalen

Scoring Mixer
So my answer would be that it is worth it if:
(1) you prefer it to the sound of other top tier reverbs, hardware or software
-and-
(2) it improves your ability to sell your music.
When you reach the point that you are considering a Bricasti M7 or a Manley Variable Mu or even a $3K pair of microphones it is a two part question - do they work for you, and are they a reasonable investment in your business, and unless you hit the lottery I don't think you can ignore one or the other.
I've been thinking about this a lot recently. If something like this would improve my work but I'm working on projects where it doesn't really matter, then is it really a worthwhile investment? It makes my work better but that doesn't necessarily increase the ability to sell my work. Right now my studio is basically at a point where I have everything I need to do the work I currently have and any new gear I'd like to get is a considerable investment (+$3k).

The exercise was worthwhile though, because I learned that my KM-84 fetish is not all in my head, they really do sound as good as I remember. And they really are a small step above anything else I tried. But they are not worth $3K to me right now.
Don't mean to derail the thread but have you tried the Michael Joly modded Oktavas? They're made specifically to sound like the KM-84 and seem to go a great job. I'm thinking of sending mine in for the mod.
 

Architekton

Active Member
Bricasti certainly wont make your music better...but will it sound more professional technical wise? No one can answer on that question. The closest thing you can get to Bricasti sound is 7th heaven reverb professional which is a direct copy of Bricasti M7 reverb in native world. So, if you cant get the sound you are looking for out of it, you certainly wont get it with 3k $ worth of hw reverb either.
 

wst3

my office these days
Moderator
Gerhard Westphalen said:
<snip>
Don't mean to derail the thread but have you tried the Michael Joly modded Oktavas? They're made specifically to sound like the KM-84 and seem to go a great job. I'm thinking of sending mine in for the mod.
Not really derailing, I think.

I've listened to quite a few demos of both his modified Oktavas and his from-scratch MJE-384s. He was in Philly a while back, but I was unable to attend that meeting. Bummed, because I like Michael a lot, and I think he is quite good, and getting my hands on his microphones could have made a decision a little easier.

So they are certainly under consideration. BUT, as with every other microphone I tried they are not a replacement for the KM-84. At least not based on any demo I've listened to. They are close, but so are the Peluso, and the Mitek, and the Telefunken, and so on, even the Oktava - there is a certain range of sounds one expects from a transformerless FET design small capsule condensor, and they are all in that ballpark. And yet the are all different! Throw in the Schoeps, DPA and Sanken offerings and you get three more takes on it.

Equally important, and an absolute deal breaker, if I can't use them in my studio, on my instruments, then I'm not considering them at all. Actually if I can't use them I'm not considering them, my place, my instruments is a bonus<G>!

No, if I were able to justify the expense I'd get a pair of KM-84s. I'm done looking for a replacement, at least for now. I don't believe it exists.

Since I'm not there now I'm working with what I have, and I did pick up a pair of the Telefunken M60s. They are not a replacement, but they did provide a very nice sound that I could not get with my other microphones. In fact I'm thinking about selling off a couple of the other pair now. The M60s are really quite good.

All of which plays right back to the original question. For some only a Bricasti will do, for others a plugin version of the Bricasti will do, for some it has to be a Lexi 224 or 480, others like the plugin versions of these.

It's a two part question, every time, and the frustrating part is that the two parts are pretty well isolated. You find the solution that works for you, then you figure out if it makes good business sense, or if you can afford it without the business justification.

To the rest of your post - improving my work, or my work flow is not a sufficient justification for me to spend $3K on outboard gear or even microphones. The audible differences will not improve my bottom line, and since I am not selling my services it won't help me make a sale. On the other hand, better monitors, or a better room will improve my work, and stands a chance of improving my ability to sell my work. Still a difficult business decision, but at least I've identified the question!
 

Greg

Senior Member
I was shocked by how realistic the room tones are, nothing even compares in the vst realm to my ears. In fact my very first thought was that I need to buy at least 1 more. Hahaha
 

JohnG

Senior Member
I use hardware reverb, but really it's a technicality. Most boxes one buys nowadays, while undoubtedly hardware and separate, nevertheless are just a dedicated processor with software reverb algorithms. So it's somewhat a matter of semantics, when you get down to it, unless you are buying "real" hardware like a plate or something. Or a Manley Massive Passive.

I am not for a moment knocking external hardware reverb, but as a practical matter for [movie/game/TV] score its contribution is marginal in many cases; when it comes to delivering a project I have to provide stems so either I or my engineer would either have to spend about a week printing stems through the hardware reverb or buy six of them.

I'm mostly converted over to using UAD reverbs and they sound good.
 
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Henk

New Member
I’ve been using 4 x TC Fireworx, about 1800 bucks total, and a Mutec Clock for several years and thought I was slick until I heard the Model 7 in person.

Their office must be in Gardnerville, NV. where my daughter n Law grew up.
She hooked me up with with this 18 year old hip hopper who got one as a gift from his dad as I was shamed.

I’m holding off until I hear the Eventide H9000.
Hoping their Reverbs have improved.

If not, a used Model 7 as the main verb with DSP and TCs would be great.
Chimuelo:
I am a new, and found this interesting post.
What reverb do you use now? Have you used h9000?
 

ProfoundSilence

Senior Member
Keep in mind that all reverbs are digital and itb.

that's demonstrably false. Reverberation occurs in nature, which is even more out of the box.

If I play a sound through a speaker in a cave and pick it up with a microphone - there is no box, and the reverberation is analogue.

but yes - the M7 reverb(unlike a physical plate reverb) is a digital reverb unit.

As for me, the ability to control each reverb is absolutely better than any hardware unit. in 7th heaven you can adjust each reverb to match the instrument, clearing up any nasty frequency build ups.
 

chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
Chimuelo:
I am a new, and found this interesting post.
What reverb do you use now? Have you used h9000?
Actually use my Reverbs for Live work more than recording, so I grabbed the Strymon Big Sky.
Ive never seen the H9000 in person yet and the trade shows I go to are Computex, CES.
But have seen their pedals which are impressive.
If their 9000 is a step above that it must be phenomenal.
Their pitch algos are xtreme too.

I bought a Meris Hedra Pedal that loops into/through my Strymon Timeline.
Some exotic signature sounds are being made.
Heres my mobile rack for local gigs. Its a frame that goes back into an ATA when I travel.
Its a great recording rig though, self contained and uses Reaper, Bidule and Cubase.
PLAY, Kontakt, PianoTeq, ZebraHZ and Omnisphere/Keysacpe get mixed into my DSP Rack where hardware FX, analog and FPGA based hardware synths are combined.

Would love to get a Model 7 someday.
Love native audio and samples, as well as dynamics processing, but for Modulations, Delays and Reverbs I prefer hardware still.

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Henk

New Member
Thank you, I understand.
ITB is easy to work, but the sound quality is not good.
I have lexicon 300, uad fx (480, emt140..)
But always think that the plugin is not as good as hardware。
 

chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
Thank you, I understand.
ITB is easy to work, but the sound quality is not good.
I have lexicon 300, uad fx (480, emt140..)
But always think that the plugin is not as good as hardware。
I prefer Dynamics on ITB Audio as it is immediate, but mixing and mastering in DSP and routing hardware FX into that environment is my fav.
Most of my samples need no treatment until I start layering sounds which works really well for me.
So nailing the intial sounds with EQ and Dynamics befre adding Time based effects gets me the bang I like.
Especially for that drone Sine Bass so popular in HipHop.
I can get a better Tube simulation with really well shaped sound ITB than going out into my Modded Tube Compressor or Tube based Sonic Exciter and those units cost me some dough. But they are great on the Mains of a PA as Inserts. Real beefy.

UAD someday will add MIDI Automation and parameter control especially on their Console 2 Mixer.
By the time they break down and add MIDI my 10 year old DSP rack will likely die or lose support.
Mixing in DSP has been my workflow for 15 years now.
I fear change..
 

IvanP

Senior Member
I have a Bricasti and it's an amazing piece of hardware. But, to be honest, for music production, I very rarely use it. Printing Stems is obviously done in Real Time, so I don't have the time to do it and use a mix of 7th Heaven + Other Great Reverb Plugins offline.

I've mixed with Lexicon hardware too, which sounds obviously spectacular, but the Bricasti does has that magic. Too bad I think it's more for Mixing purposes than for Music Production.

I do have a funny anecdote though.

Last year, I was reviewing some demos with a director for a Feature Film and he mentioned that that (forgot which) instrument didn't sound very real in the mockup.

I said. Let me change something. I only had to switch the Bricasti and he said "Ah! Now it sounds amazing" :P
 
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