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Infinite Series (Aaron Venture) thread

Me either. I was hoping shakes would come at some point, but I can't think of any way of doing that with vanilla Infinite given the dip in dynamics during slower legato transitions. I guess we'll have to wait for our friend @scoredfilms then. :)



Ah so it's on the DAW level then, okay thanks. I'll have to wait until I get a keyboard with a pitch wheel to use Kontakt's pitch wheel then I suppose.
1.5 CONFIRMED!

Just kidding. As far as I'm concerned this library is as complete as they come now, for. My purposes at least.

Now just looking forward to strings!
 
And results change with note duration. Probably the best idea here would be to sequence it until you find the right combination of note duration + velocity that satisfies you. Otherwise no, no scripted shakes yet

Thanks for going to the trouble to mock that up Aaron - sounds really nice, and as you've demonstrated there's a lot of flexibility in being able to do this 'live' rather than pre-canned. Starting to look like a no-brainer! Is the woodwind update due this year, and is there any likelihood of a flute preview before the early price for Brass 1.4 expires?
 
Thanks for going to the trouble to mock that up Aaron - sounds really nice, and as you've demonstrated there's a lot of flexibility in being able to do this 'live' rather than pre-canned. Starting to look like a no-brainer! Is the woodwind update due this year, and is there any likelihood of a flute preview before the early price for Brass 1.4 expires?
Woodwinds update is already underway. It's due this year, yes. I have yet to get to the flutes, however. So far only oboes are done..

I'm not sure what do the flutes have with Brass an its discount price, I might be missing something. Could you elaborate?
 
I'm not sure what do the flutes have with Brass an its discount price, I might be missing something. Could you elaborate?

Badly phrased on my part, sorry - I mistakenly thought there was a bundle price for both which expired on April 16 - so a preview of the woodwind update would have tempted me to buy both, rather than just the brass.

Basically just a reading error by me - long day, apologies!
 
Badly phrased on my part, sorry - I mistakenly thought there was a bundle price for both which expired on April 16 - so a preview of the woodwind update would have tempted me to buy both, rather than just the brass.

Basically just a reading error by me - long day, apologies!

I can't tell you if this library will work for you, but having oboes, clarinets, and bass woodwinds with this flexibility alone was more than enough to justify the price of admission for me. Oboes in particular are no fun unless they can play fun lines, which is why I love the ones in Infinite Woodwinds.

Clarinets also have glides, which would come in handy for subgenres of jazz, particularly big band.
 

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Thanks again for the kind words - attached revised mp3 that uses only mic mixing and EQ to get a good balance. Same ordering of motif mentioned in my previous post (link). Also attached screenshots of horns/trumpets/trombones/tuba EQ settings.

How I matched it: two basic strategies: (1) use mic mixing to try and get a similar stereo image and reverb tail, (2) use EQ to try and match timbre, often times doing it in mono. Repeated these steps a few times. After I felt they were roughly matched, I actually did another pass over IB to adjust the tone to personal taste, not worrying about matching it so precisely to BB anymore.

And one last personal opinion, I'm beginning to realize that for this library, good performance programming makes a big difference in how the mix gets perceived. Humans (or at least me?) are silly like that, getting our wires crossed so easily.

Here's a few gems of performance programming I think I've figured out so far. Apologies if these are obvious, but they've been really working well for me to make more natural sounding performances.
- slight different pitch bend on instruments that are playing in unison
- try drawing in slightly pitch bend modulation on very loud notes, especially in very high or low register, to emulate the innacuracy a player might have on holding a loud steady note.
- For accents, experiment between loud note velocity + low CC1, versus medium note velocity and high CC1. Also experiment with slight ramp-in envelopes on CC1 if you want to try a more rounded but still immediate attacks, where low note velocity attack would be too slow.
- For portatos and longer staccatos, experiment with different shapes of CC1 envelope to manage the perceived attack and release of each note. Different CC curves can make a huge difference in the character of the note, and different scenarios will need different CC curves. A CC ramp upwards can create an intensity that drives to the next note. A CC ramp down can help create a slight breath after the note. etc. This is where I think Infinite Brass really shines in expressive power compared to most other sample libraries.
- Adding a small bit of growl in the right places on trombone adds to the authenticity of playing loud and hard. i.e. not using growl for the effect itself, but for the imperfections that it creates in trying to hold loud notes. Might work for tuba/horn too, not sure I haven't really tried.
these settings seem a little extreme ... 🤔
 
these settings seem a little extreme ... 🤔

This is a very good point to discuss!

(1) Most importantly - the library does sound great without any EQ settings.

(2) How about my trumpet EQ: -20 dB at 80 Hz does seem extreme. But please consider - the lowest register that a standard Bb/C trumpet can reach is around 160 Hz, one octave above that. And their usual fundamental frequencies are more like 300-900 Hz. Also, my intention was not literally "reduce 80 Hz by 20 dB". My goal was to use the slope of the EQ filter, shaped by the Q parameter, to sculpt the sound. So let's assume that the EQ curve is plotted correctly on my plugin, then you'll see that it's around -12 dB at 250 Hz, and maybe -8 dB around 500 Hz. So that's a slope of 4 dB / octave, which isn't that extreme at all. When shaping tone like this, personally I find that the slopes of the EQ are the real meaningful tool. The exact center frequency and gain of the filter don't matter as much.

(3) It's very possible that my EQ settings will need to be fixed a lot when actually using the libraries for real orchestrated music.

(4) It is very subjective. I'm beginning to learn about myself that I like the sound of having emphasized mid range frequencies. I have a small room with no acoustic treatment (i.e. bad bass response) and bright Adam monitors. Also I may have used my headphones too loudly when mixing this, too. So for all those reasons I might be inclined to mix things very mid-range heavy.

(5) My mixing decisions were made only using f-ff dynamics so far. I probably should try the same exercise with pp-mp examples.

Cheers!
 
All of my current projects use sections from Infinite Brass and Winds. Are you looking for demos of naked Infinite sections, or are you concerned about how they fit with the rest of the orchestra?

I'm generally interested in the sections but would be happy to hear anything where it works with an orchestra also. Thanks in advance if you have the time!
 
This is a very good point to discuss!

(1) Most importantly - the library does sound great without any EQ settings.

(2) How about my trumpet EQ: -20 dB at 80 Hz does seem extreme. But please consider - the lowest register that a standard Bb/C trumpet can reach is around 160 Hz, one octave above that. And their usual fundamental frequencies are more like 300-900 Hz. Also, my intention was not literally "reduce 80 Hz by 20 dB". My goal was to use the slope of the EQ filter, shaped by the Q parameter, to sculpt the sound. So let's assume that the EQ curve is plotted correctly on my plugin, then you'll see that it's around -12 dB at 250 Hz, and maybe -8 dB around 500 Hz. So that's a slope of 4 dB / octave, which isn't that extreme at all. When shaping tone like this, personally I find that the slopes of the EQ are the real meaningful tool. The exact center frequency and gain of the filter don't matter as much.

(3) It's very possible that my EQ settings will need to be fixed a lot when actually using the libraries for real orchestrated music.

(4) It is very subjective. I'm beginning to learn about myself that I like the sound of having emphasized mid range frequencies. I have a small room with no acoustic treatment (i.e. bad bass response) and bright Adam monitors. Also I may have used my headphones too loudly when mixing this, too. So for all those reasons I might be inclined to mix things very mid-range heavy.

(5) My mixing decisions were made only using f-ff dynamics so far. I probably should try the same exercise with pp-mp examples.

Cheers!
Yes it is true that your EQ curves are very soft and that does not make the sound unpleasant. I agree with you because I too calm the treble and give a little medium. What bothers me a little when listening is the reduction you make in the bass. Anyway if it suits you it's perfect and I hope I didn't give you the impression that it was a nasty criticism, just a remark :)
 
Whats the general feeling on whether Infinite is better than SM Brass?

SM Brass is having a (seemingly one time only) sale at the moment due to the coronavirus crisis, making the whole brass bundle even cheaper than infinite.
 
Whats the general feeling on whether Infinite is better than SM Brass?

SM Brass is having a (seemingly one time only) sale at the moment due to the coronavirus crisis, making the whole brass bundle even cheaper than infinite.

I only own Infinite and I haven't investigated the library much because I only heard about it after investing in the Infinite series, BUT...

What I've heard about it from others comes down to this:

SM has even more expressiveness and flexibility than Infinite, but Infinite has a better tone. I heard this when IB was in 1.3, so unless SM has also had tone-related updates, the disparity is probably greater now.

Of course, I don't know if either of those things are true. It's just what I've heard.
 

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This is as close as I could get by ear.


EDIT: I added a softer version as well that is a bit easier on the ears. IB handles it surprisingly well I think.

Thanks for adding the quieter version. Sounds much better. And I agree, Infinite handles it very well, but at this point I'd be more surprised if it didn't. I'm a shameless fanboy for these libraries lol.

Can we get some MIDI?
 
This is as close as I could get by ear.


EDIT: I added a softer version as well that is a bit easier on the ears. IB handles it surprisingly well I think.

This sounds awesome. Makes me think that Infinite could *really* nail the busy Horner Wrath of Khan horn line.
 
Yes it is true that your EQ curves are very soft and that does not make the sound unpleasant. I agree with you because I too calm the treble and give a little medium. What bothers me a little when listening is the reduction you make in the bass. Anyway if it suits you it's perfect and I hope I didn't give you the impression that it was a nasty criticism, just a remark :)

Not at all, your feedback is greatly appreciated! After day away from it, listening again on my monitors properly, I completely agree now that I removed too much bass!
 
This is probably an old, oft-repeated question, but are ensembles on the roadmap for Infinite? I guess in the interest in ease of use, but possibly in saving system resources?
 
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