Increase Gain in VE Pro or in the DAW

Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by Peter Stallo, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. Peter Stallo

    Peter Stallo Member

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    I'm creating a VE Pro template and the Spitfire patches sound way software than the other libraries I'm using, so I definitely need to boost the gain somewhere.

    Do you normally try to increase the gain to match the other sound sets in VE Pro first or do you do add gain plugins in the DAW to boost it? (or, does it even matter?)
     
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  2. sinkd

    sinkd Senior Member

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    I have come to the conclusion that it is better to mix other libraries down to the Spitfire levels in VE Pro and then rebalance in the DAW, especially just in the final stereo bus. This ensures that I always have headroom to "goose" a track when mixing the stems.
     
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  3. novaburst

    novaburst Senior Member

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    Its preference really, how you feel, you can experiment, i let VEpro handle all effects so limiters are with VEpro and gain is used mostly through the effect in ether groups (bus) or individual tracks.

    Its not what all do its my preferred method.
     
  4. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    I personally would boost the instruments inside Kontakt if they're too low.
     
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  5. midiman

    midiman Active Member

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    I use the Kontakt insert fx called Gain, to boast it in Kontakt.
     
  6. Wolfie2112

    Wolfie2112 Senior Member

    You shouldn't use any gain plugins, just balance everything in the instance itself, as @Nick Batzdorf mentioned.
     
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  7. novaburst

    novaburst Senior Member

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    What is your reason for not using plugins for gain, i find it very useful,
     
  8. Wolfie2112

    Wolfie2112 Senior Member

    Just my opinion, but it's best practice to balance your entire template so it's basically ready to ho in terms of levels. Just increase the volume of the plugin, it's DAW channel, the VEPro instance, or a combination of these. If you need a gain plugin, there's something wrong with the VI itself.
     
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  9. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    You're asking Wolfie, but my answer: I've used the Gain plug-in in Pro Tools while editing audio, because it just writes the level change to the file and you're done.

    However, have you ever heard people talk about "proper gain staging?" The term annoys me a little - I get irritable about language :) - but what it's saying is instinctual to anyone who's used analog equipment: keep everything as close to its nominal level as possible. If you have lots of knobs way up or way down on analog equipment, chances are you're going to distort something or get more noise than necessary.

    That may or may not apply to 64-bit digital mix paths, but it's still probably good practice.

    Obviously there are times when you want to distort things on purpose, but that's a special case.
     
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  10. novaburst

    novaburst Senior Member

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    I guess there are a few options in what we do with our signal,my belief is the gain gives you extra head room at the mixer level on instruments that are not sampled with a good enough volume,

    well they are different one is signal strength the other (volume) and (fader use) is what your hearing weather the signal is strong or weak so i can put volume up on a weak signal but all you would hear is a lot of hiss and nose with that instrument.

    Volume can not strengthen your signal but gain will, gain gives the option to bring weaker signals into play that,s why i feel a limiter (preamp) is a great tool to use to slightly bring the strength of that signal in question to the average level so your general mixer faders are not to out of place and have good head room for volume across the whole mixer,

    Another way that you can have gain is what we do all the time and that is layer our instruments or double them up so it cuts through a better.

    This is ok but normally you run out of gain very quick and end up with the slider or knob at its limit the very thing i try to avoid.

    Agreed i am sure the same principle is applied to digital plugins and VSTs.

    This is neither hear nor there you will come across instruments that are sampled louder from one library to the next and we use many of them.

    Any way can we really say is there a right way or a wrong way is it not what your ear hears feels and is sounding sweet........... go for it.
     
  11. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    Volume, gain, signal strength - who cares as long as you love your mother. If you turn up the volume or raise the fader, you're increasing the gain and the signal is stronger and there's more louderness.
     
  12. VinRice

    VinRice ... i am a robot ...

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    Volume, Gain, Level are all the same thing in the digital domain, they will all raise the noise floor equally assuming no other processing in between. Gain plug-ins can be useful before plug-ins that emulate non-linear distortion like console and tape emulations to get them in the right ballpark, they can be useful for trimming after the fact when you don't want to mess with a complex automation run and also for just getting your faders into their sweet spots before mixing. Kontakt can distort if you over-gain it whereas your floating 32/64 bit channel will not, so gaining after Kontakt has advantages. Always using exactly the same level on your monitors or headphones helps you 'know' when an instrument level is right and after a while you don't ever have to think about it.
     
  13. novaburst

    novaburst Senior Member

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    Ok guys just go for the sound you love, its really up to you how you tweak and you can call it want you want, i guess just enjoy
     
  14. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    In the analog domain you're choosing where to run a signal through an active amplifier stage - which is why it's called Gain; passive electronic stages (usually variable resistors - potentiometers) are sometimes labeled Trim.

    But in a DAW it's a multiplication/division operation, regardless of where you do it.
     
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