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Illogical Logic Issue

Thundercat

Senior Member
Hey all,

I'm a fairly new Logic Pro X user, last couple months really. I noticed a couple frustrating issues.

1) If I start a new project with a software instrument, like a piano, there's often a latency between key strike and sound. So I turn on "Low Latency" recording, and it's fine.

However, later into the project after I've added 3-4 other software instruments, the latency returns to the piano, and indeed all the other software instruments even though I've got the low latency record still turned on. Rebooting or restarting doesn't help this issue; once the latency is there it's there. Also, I have the record buffer around 256 as suggested, but lower doesn't really help.

is there a fix for this?

I've a 2013 MacBook Pro with 16GB ram. No scorcher, but it's a decent rig and the track counts on my projects are still pretty low.

2) I noticed some of my Kontakt instruments have a major low volume issue. For example, my Spitfire Hanz Zimmer Strings - they are so low in volume I can't even use them! And yes I turned up the mics within the interface, and my Apogee Quartet volume is at 3/4 (normally pretty loud!). Some other instruments don't have this issue in the same track. So frustrating! All I wanna do is make some muzak!

Thanks for any insights.

Best,

Mike
 
Solvd one of the problems. I was using a program called SonarWorks for headphone translation - on a whim I turned it off and the latency is gone. So I'll only use that when making critical listening decisions as opposed to tracking.

Still not sure about the problem with the low instrument volumes...
 
2) I noticed some of my Kontakt instruments have a major low volume issue. For example, my Spitfire Hanz Zimmer Strings - they are so low in volume I can't even use them! And yes I turned up the mics within the interface, and my Apogee Quartet volume is at 3/4 (normally pretty loud!). Some other instruments don't have this issue in the same track. So frustrating! All I wanna do is make some muzak!
Have you only turned up the mics of the instrument or the volume inside the player?

Kontakt offers volume control for every patch your loading (the slider on the upper right corner of your instrument patch). Spitfire usually sets them to -6db, so they’re often times a lot lower in volume than other companies/instruments.
The Spitfire Player also has a volume control on the upper right corner; normally HZ Strings should play fine though after using the mod wheel.

Depending on the articulation(s) you‘re using there‘s also a natural difference in volume; especially on some things like strings.

If that doesn‘t help you can also add a Gain effect on your instruments track to get it louder and on one level with the other instruments:)
 
Have you only turned up the mics of the instrument or the volume inside the player?

Kontakt offers volume control for every patch your loading (the slider on the upper right corner of your instrument patch). Spitfire usually sets them to -6db, so they’re often times a lot lower in volume than other companies/instruments.
The Spitfire Player also has a volume control on the upper right corner; normally HZ Strings should play fine though after using the mod wheel.

Depending on the articulation(s) you‘re using there‘s also a natural difference in volume; especially on some things like strings.

If that doesn‘t help you can also add a Gain effect on your instruments track to get it louder and on one level with the other instruments:)
Thank you Fretti, that was very thoughtful of you.

I will check the Kontakt volume - I know what you are talking about. But I haven’tneeded to do that for almost any other instruments.

And when I say it’s soft - turning headphones all the way up and it’s hard to hear. Never had such a weird issue. Most articulations are barely audible; only one is loud enough to be barely useable. And yes the internal mics and volumes are up within the spitfire player.

And other instruments in the same project are plenty loud, so it’s not like my computer is having an audio problem...

thabks again for your help!

mike
 
And when I say it’s soft - turning headphones all the way up and it’s hard to hear. Never had such a weird issue. Most articulations are barely audible; only one is loud enough to be barely useable. And yes the internal mics and volumes are up within the spitfire player.

And other instruments in the same project are plenty loud, so it’s not like my computer is having an audio problem...
That sounds odd indeed. At least for HZ Strings I can say that various patches are extremely low in volume (almost silent when used without effects and turned up volume). I remember using them (I think the Super Flautandos Celli it was) and having to turn it up to about +24 db through a gain in order for it to keep up with the rest of the track.
(pretty cool effect in the end though)

The same goes for stuff like Albion Tundra with the almost silent patches.

Though it sounds like that might not be the reason for your volumes to be so low. Depending on if it's only Spitfire (only HZS?) or other developers as well it might be worth to contact the Spitfire guys. Especially when it's about their own player there might be either some easy solution (maybe some CC values not correctly assigned during install or so) or there is a yet unknown bug they can fix with future updates :)
 
Still not sure about the problem with the low instrument volumes...

Some Spitfire instruments are rather low in volume.

Instead of turning up the volume in Kontakt, you can also add Logic's Gain plugin (it lives in the utility folder). The advantage is the better visual control; so you can adjust the values later.
(p.s. i use it all the time for gain-staging – of course usually with negative values) gain.png
 
I usually use the stock Compressor plugin instead of a Gain plugin when I'm flipping through a zillion Kontakt libraries, because if I scroll to an instrument that is NOT totally quiet, the compressor will clamp down like a mofo on it, while still giving me lots of auto-gain and a hard limiter.

Just set a really low threshold, a high-ish ratio and a hard knee, and ZERO attack time. Set Auto Gain to 0db and boom - everything is loud. Of course you can also use the Output Gain knob as you would use the Gain plugin.

This has the benefit of showing you some useful info by watching the meters.

compressorsettings.png
 
p.s. of course i wasn't recommending the Gain plugin when trying out patches. That could cause serious damage in case of a loud sound appears.

Its use makes sense once you have a patch you use that simply is too soft.
Personally, i quite often use it in combination with some Albion Tundra patches as well as with Ivory pianos, when the used dynamic range is low.
 
Hey everyone - really great ideas thanks for sharing! You are all so brilliant!

I did think of the mod wheel being turned down, but that wasn't it.

I'll look more into it and share more when I have some time to try it again.

Many thanks for the great suggestions. What a great forum this is!

Mike
 
Solvd one of the problems. I was using a program called SonarWorks for headphone translation - on a whim I turned it off and the latency is gone. So I'll only use that when making critical listening decisions as opposed to tracking.

Still not sure about the problem with the low instrument volumes...
You can actually clone Your Systemwide EQ curve to Logic's Match-EQ which has a zero latency mode. Alternatively you can replace SystemWide with Rogue Amoeba's SoundSource and use Pro-Q3 in zero latency mode, (or any other match-EQ plugin that has a zero latency mode.)

To do that you do the following:

  1. Insert these 3 plugins all on the same channel, in the order listed. Logic Test Oscillator (Under Utilities), Reference 4, Logic's Match-Eq.
  2. Set the Test Oscillator to Pink Noise. (Turn your volume down obviously.)
  3. Open the Match-EQ plugin and click the reference tab then hit learn, (the red button). Wait for the analyzer graph to even out, 5-10 seconds is usually enough.
  4. Bypass the Reference 4 plugin then click Match-EQ's current tab. Click learn and wait for the analyzer graph to stabilize. (Again, 5-10 seconds.)
  5. Click the EQ curve tab, hit match and slide the amount to 100%. Adjust the smoothing slider to between 0 and 1.
  6. Click the Phase dropdown below the match button and set it to Minimal, Zero Latency. Save a preset, done.

Drop a loop or track in and compare between Logic's match-eq and Reference. It'll sound virtually identical, but no added latency...

The only drawback to doing this is you have to remember to manually bypass Logic's match-eq, if you're used to using the reference plugin than you'll already be used to that...
 
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You can actually clone Your Systemwide EQ curve to Logic's Match-EQ which has a zero latency mode. Alternatively you can replace SystemWide with Rogue Amoeba's SoundSource and use Pro-Q3 in zero latency mode, (or any other match-EQ plugin that has a zero latency mode.)

To do that you do the following:

  1. Insert these 3 plugins all on the same channel, in the order listed. Logic Test Oscillator (Under Utilities), Reference 4, Logic's Match-Eq.
  2. Set the Test Oscillator to Pink Noise. (Turn your volume down obviously.)
  3. Open the Match-EQ plugin and click the reference tab then hit learn, (the red button). Wait for the analyzer graph to even out, 5-10 seconds is usually enough.
  4. Bypass the Reference 4 plugin then click Match-EQ's current tab. Click learn and wait for the analyzer graph to stabilize. (Again, 5-10 seconds.)
  5. Click the EQ curve tab, hit match and slide the amount to 100%. Adjust the smoothing slider to between 0 and 1.
  6. Click the Phase dropdown below the match button and set it to Minimal, Zero Latency. Save a preset, done.

Drop a loop or track in and compare between Logic's match-eq and Reference. It'll sound virtually identical, but no added latency...

The only drawback to doing this is you have to remember to manually bypass Logic's match-eq, if you're used to using the reference plugin than you'll already be used to that...
Great info! Thx!
 
sometimes when I use the KK S keyboard there is hardly any sound
coming from Kontakt or Komplete Kontrol, up the mod wheel or volume
control does not help.
a design error from NI, I think everybody knows now, to put the touchslider right beneath the wheels.
 
Sonarworks has the option to run at zero latency.

Really excellent! Thanks for the note and I'll check it out!
 
While I don't have the Zimmer strings, I a different take than many here--it's likely at the CORRECT volume...or closer TO correct...most VIs are easily 14db TOO hot. Take your head off with their presets if you have your monitoring calibrated correctly.

Luckily, in Logic, you can save a user default with it's output down -14db....problem solved. I actually put up virtual VU and peak meters and calibrated** all my VIs that way in Logic so they'd open in the ball park of "right". They were all different. There's no standard for VIs levels.

** -18dbfs=0VU in my case--it's default for Waves, Slate, and Harrison analog models. I'd rather use the more standard 20/22 db headroom, but since 18 is the default in SO much...life is easier when you can use the defaults. And functionally, it's not like I run out of headroom at 18.
 
While I don't have the Zimmer strings, I a different take than many here--it's likely at the CORRECT volume...or closer TO correct...most VIs are easily 14db TOO hot. Take your head off with their presets if you have your monitoring calibrated correctly.

Luckily, in Logic, you can save a user default with it's output down -14db....problem solved. I actually put up virtual VU and peak meters and calibrated** all my VIs that way in Logic so they'd open in the ball park of "right". They were all different. There's no standard for VIs levels.

** -18dbfs=0VU in my case--it's default for Waves, Slate, and Harrison analog models. I'd rather use the more standard 20/22 db headroom, but since 18 is the default in SO much...life is easier when you can use the defaults. And functionally, it's not like I run out of headroom at 18.
Interesting take.

So is it normal that when I bang my fingers down on the keyboard I get a low volume on one patch only, and the rest are literally barely audible with the same 127 force?

I don't think so...

But I'm sure you're right about other libraries being too hot...

I'll keep looking into it and if I find an answer I'll post back.

Thanks much

Mike
 
The one PATCH has a low volume, or Hanz’s library? Your post implied his library sounds were less loud than your “other instruments”.
 
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