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I think it has to be this... moving from Mac to PC... :sad face:

Discussion in 'PC/Mac Builders, Mods, Peripherals - New' started by wayne_rowley, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. AdamAlake

    AdamAlake Music Person

    Do not worry about that too much, at their core most DAWs are similar and learning the basics of workflow takes a short amount of time and you can learn advanced functions as you go.

    I would recommend starting with the Studio One trial, it is a good DAW, easy to learn and you get to try the full version in the trial period.
    creativeforge likes this.
  2. creativeforge

    creativeforge Barefoot Heart Music

    Agreed! I had to check to make sure the machine was on after replacing my fan with a Noctua. Not making this up! :)
  3. Zhao Shen

    Zhao Shen StormSound

    Jul 8, 2014
    I've mentioned this before, but I use both a Mac and PC daily (for different purposes) and prefer Windows to MacOS. Yes, I'm in the minority, but moving to PC isn't objectively bad.
    creativeforge likes this.
  4. khollister

    khollister Senior Member

    Nov 28, 2007
    The big issue here isn't hardware "bang for the buck" but changing DAW's. I made the switch to PC and Cubase over a year ago myself. In my case, however, I specifically wanted Cubase for expression maps.

    As you are a hobbyist and are not trying to build a 8/10/12 core monster PC, have you considered an i7 iMac or a used Mac Pro 6.1? Still more expensive than a DIY modest PC, but you stay with Logic and what you already know.
  5. Personally, I would hold out until you can move up to a better Mac...such as a newer iMac. Windows and Cubase are going to open up a whole new world of headaches (not to mention a learning a DAW from the ground up). If you like Logic, stick with it.
  6. Symfoniq

    Symfoniq Senior Member

    May 8, 2013
    There might be more of us than you think. I use Windows, Linux, and macOS daily. I've been using a Mac since the System 6 days, but today macOS is probably my least favorite of the three major operating systems, and High Sierra is absolutely the buggiest of the three.
    Zhao Shen likes this.
  7. Ashermusic

    Ashermusic Senior Member

    Mar 27, 2006
    Los Angeles
    I am sure that they exist but I have never met a knowledgeable person who worked for years on the Mac OS and moved to Windows and said, "i actually prefer Windows to the Mac OS." But that said, rarely have I met a knowledgeable person who worked for years on the Windows OS and moved to the Mac OS and said, "i actually prefer the Mac OS to the Windows OS."
    Saxer and Sami like this.
  8. Heroix

    Heroix Senior Member

    Dec 15, 2014
    well, i used to be a programmer in my day job and was developing for windows only. also i have used every version for personal use, but nowadays i prefer osx alot. i just like the look and feel, and also high sierra runs perfect here without any problems. sold my mac pro btw and build a ryzen hackintosh which works like a charm.

    iam still using windows aswell if i want to play a game, but besides that my machine boots high sierra for everything else.
  9. ranaprathap

    ranaprathap Senior Member

    Sep 27, 2016
    I would recommend going with the i7 8700k with a Noctua cooler. These Noctua coolers are supposed to be quieter, and perform better than AIO liquid coolers, and are good for overclocking.
  10. Not sure if I fall into the "knowledgeable" category, but I moved to Mac OS in 2013 (after 20+ years on Windows), it was a real eye opener. I can't imagine going back to Windows. To me it was just like using a big iPhone, and everything "magically" worked without having to fart around.
  11. Mornats

    Mornats Senior Member

    Feb 21, 2016
    Bristol, UK
    I've used Windows since the 90s at home then in 2009 I got a job that required me to use a Mac. Coincidentally I started using OSX at the same time as Windows 7 so "worked" (on music as my hobby) at home on Windows and at work on OSX. I eventually, after 4 years, requested that I was given a PC at work due to frustrations in trying to use OSX. Now, this isn't a knock on OSX. It works brilliantly for some but for me there were things that just worked on Windows that frustrated me on OSX. Little things and big things. If I were 100% on OSX I probably would have transitioned well but using both side by side just highlighted the differences that frustrated me.

    In short, my conclusion is that the best operating system is the one you're at home with and which doesn't hinder you and that can be either OSX or Windows.
  12. trumpoz

    trumpoz Trumpet, DAW, Beer, Done

    Oct 7, 2010
    Have you thought of building a PC as a slave computer?

    You use the MacbookPro as the master and stay with Logic and the heavy lifting is done on the PC. The cost of a PC + VEPro and you dont have to buy/learn new DAW software.

    I dont know if you have networking experience but I dont and VE Pro was easy to setup and get running.
    Wolfie2112 likes this.
  13. OP

    wayne_rowley Senior Member

    Thanks for all the great replies. It has been a manic week - hence my delay in getting back on the forum.

    Firstly, slave machines. It's not something I'm looking at now for a few reasons. Firstly, with my MacBook being 7+ years old it is reaching the point that it needs replacing anyway. I'd rather work on one machine as I don't have a lot of space - and certainly not enough for a two computers/screens. I think a slave would be overkill for my needs, at least at the moment.

    I know what everyone is saying about workflow and the benefits of staying with what I know - Logic! That is my dilemma. But I'm thinking of not just now but the future. I could buy another three years of Logic time just be getting a 5.1. But since I bought my Mac, Apple have:

    - Made Macs less upgradable and repairable
    - Made them more expensive to buy as all upgrades must be bought at time of purchase (at Apple prices)

    Sadly I don't see that changing in the near future.

    I don't want an iMac as I already have a screen, and I prefer anti-glare screens. Yet the current range of MacBook Pros only go up to 16GB. I could pay £2500K for a 15inch with 1TB SSD (probably refurb at that price) and with the RAM limitation I may only get 2-3 years before I max it (when I bought my 2011 model it had 4GB of RAM - now has 16GB).

    So I am thinking that PCs may be a better long-term option for me. Unless I can get a 2013 Pro for a good price (after Christmas John Lewis were flogging them for £1200... :sad:)

    I'll take the advice on the Noctua coolers. I'm still pondering 7700 vs 8700 and other options, and especially DAWs. I think Studio One 3 might be the nearest to Logic though, but I would want to demo it to be sure.

    Thanks again,
  14. Heroix

    Heroix Senior Member

    Dec 15, 2014
    i have an noctua dh 14 in one of my machines (i5 6600), and its super quiet. in general you cannot go wrong with noctua. sure, there are cheaper solutions but noctua is the best brand regarding cpu coolers.
  15. lpuser

    lpuser Senior Member

    Dec 7, 2012
    As someone who comes from Logic Audio on PC years ago, I absolutely understand you point. But while the PC may look like a cheaper option, don´t forget to add the price of a new DAW, probably plugin updates/changes etc. Not to speak of the fact that all major Logic and OS updates so far have been free, while that´s a different story for PC software and operating systems. All that sums up and if you are going for a really professional PC, it won´t be that much cheaper in terms of TCO in a few years from now.

    I once tried to switch my sequencer and ended up not doing it. When Emagic was bought by Apple, I wanted to stay on the PC. So I tried moving to another DAW, purchased Cubase SX but after much frustration ended up getting a Mac instead in order to keep working in Logic and being able to access all my older songs.

    If you do not need to really buy something new tomorrow, then why not at least wait until Apple unveils more infos on the upcoming Mac Pro? They promised that it will be expandable again, which is why I am waiting myself ...

  16. Heroix

    Heroix Senior Member

    Dec 15, 2014
    there would be always the hackintosh. if you cannot build/setup yourself maybe you can finde someone near you to do it for you.

    iam using hackintosh and it runs very stable for me. if you choose the right hardware its really pretty easy to setup.
  17. Britpack50

    Britpack50 Senior Member

    May 26, 2016
    Apologies if this is a little cathartic but I've just come out of a long journey...

    I made the move to PC 15 months ago. I'm on pro tools, hobbyist. Running on a cheese grater Mac Pro.

    Firstly, why did I move? 3 reasons. Firstly I wanted a PC at least as powerful as the latest mac with multiple onboard SSDs, increased memory and PCIE cards on board, not via a multitude of external boxes. I also wanted it upgradable. I also frankly dont like Apple's screw you approach to the Darth Vader Mac Pro.

    Had a PC built specially by a music of provider here in the U.K. carillon. I76950x 10 core...super powerful without going to a dual Xeon set up.

    I needed thunderbolt and I added a raven slate touch screen. ASUS x99 mobo. A year and a half later I have a stable system, but:

    1. I have found cubase more stable than pro tools so now use it for VST rich composition. May consider full switch to cubase and ditch pro tools over time, but love the latency free monitoring, HDX and general approach/facilities for audio mixing in PT.
    2. Thunderbolt and USB were a nightmare. Ultimately I had to switch to a TB 3 card, and found a you tube video which provided the only way I could get it to be recognised. Part of this issues was TB on PC and ASUS boards. Part was Windows updates...
    3. Windows updates are a pain. Every other one seems to knock some part of my system out of joint. However, I was finding some issues with apple updates too. But you can stop apple updates.
    4. The USB in ASUS x99 boards is terrible, but solved it by using new USB 3 hubs and...
    5. After a Windows update, my MOTU midi express XTs stopped my USB keyboards from being recognised! Having lost my keyboards with no way to fix it, I was about to sell the PC, but as a last ditch just deleted every bit of software I didn't need to see if something was interfering. By complete accident, I deleted the motu midi driver and bingo everything worked again! Contacted MOTU and told them their PC driver was close to 5 years old. They did nothing. So I switched to iconnectivity m10 interfaces (never knew they existed and only found them at the eleventh hour by accident, as I couldn't find an interface that did what the express XT did, except for this one).
    6. The slate Rave MTi2 has never been comfortable. I got it to work once the MOTU issue was sorted but now after an Windows update, somethign else went out and I have deleted all the raven UPDD stuff and got my system working again. I now just have a very expensive monitor and dont want tot try to get it working as a touch screen again.

    So multiple drivers, windows updates....a nightmare. But right now. It's working and its an incredibly powerful PC that I can update and modify. The fact soft synths, particularly the U-He ones can run so well with all that power has basically got me thinking I will abandon my hardware synths. I have yet to build my final template to test the limits of sample based orchestral composition but suspect it will cope just fine.

    Pros and Cons. I came close to going back to mac a few times. I also bought a 2015 iMAC for another location, obviously much less powerful, and far less stuff connected to it than my main PC, so not fair to compare, but it runs pro tools and cubase perfectly. Also got me thinking. So what to the future?

    Given the pricing of the new iMac Pros, the new Mac Pros are going to be monumentally expensive, so I am not holding out for the opportunity to spend 10K on a Mac Pro. I am glad I have a super flexible powerful PC and will stick with it.

    But be prepared. I think with a different mother board, even a year and a half later things have moved on.
    khollister likes this.
  18. mikeybabes

    mikeybabes Only the good die young....

    The best computer I ever bought is my 2009 Mac Pro Cheesegrater. I bought it new in 2009, and today it is still a very decent machine. Its a Dual Xeon Nehalem, and I 'upgraded' it to a 5,1 with a firmware flash. I can up the CPU's to if I want to.

    I bought some RAM pulled from HP servers on Ebay and packed it to 64gb for under £ 200.
    I bought a couple of SATA 3 PCI cards from eBay (new) for around £ 30 and have four internal SSD's on those cards, plus three internal mechanical drives. Also put in USB 3 cards.
    I put in a better GPU for under £ 100

    This machine is nearly ten years old and still gives more than enough performance - though I also have a new iMac 5k - so I often use it as a slave for which is out great.

    I've been very disappointed in Apple recently - there was no way I was ever going to buy a coffee grinder. I would not like to be in a position where I need to buy a new Mac just now. I am hoping for a new Mac Pro that sets the standard like the cheesegrater did - so I really don't envy you needing to make a change now.

    If Apple do make a really epic new MacPro I think they will do very well sales wise - and that might well focus their attention on this section of the market they have neglected for so long.

    If they drop the ball with the new Mac Pro - then I can see a more final and dramatic migration of power users to the PC platform - and that would be very sad.....
  19. khollister

    khollister Senior Member

    Nov 28, 2007
    I agree with Britpack. I went PC/Cubase from a 6 core cheese grater & LPX about a year ago. I love the performance of the machine, have mixed feelings about LPX vs Cubase but am frustrated with the "under the hood" fiddling, especially in light of the Win10 update process and now the latest patches (SW, BIOS, drivers, etc).

    In spite of the cost, I am seriously looking at a 10 core iMac Pro w 64GB and the Vega56 graphics card ($6600 - $800 less if I stick with the 8 core). On top of that I need a BlackMagic dock for SSD's and I have to figure out what to do about my UAD Octo and plugin library (get a PCIe->TB chassis, sell and buy a TB Satellite or sell everything and go native). The fact I'm considering spending at least $7000 to replace a $1700 PC (I would be getting a 5K display in the process) is indicative of my discomfort. The issue isn't using Windows 10, it is the maintenance and management of a Windows PC.

    Fortunately the market is on afterburners this past year, so maybe I'll treat myself :geek:

    My slave is a Haswell 6 core on a pre-Creator version of Win10 with the updates disabled successfully. I'm OK taking the Meltdown/Spectre risk on the slave (no web browsing or sensitive credentials). It's the Cubase DAW machine that has me wrapped around the axle.

    I guess Plan B (really should be Plan A) is replace the MB and CPU on the X99 DAW with Z370 & 8700K (reuse RAM) and reinstall and patch everything, and hope for minimal performance issues. Still stuck with update hell, though.

    Britpack50 likes this.
  20. mystic merlin

    mystic merlin New Member

    Jan 13, 2018
    Hi, I know you’re not keen on a hackintosh but with a golden build on tonymac you really can’t go wrong. I tried windows but the main problems were Antivirus software compulsory, No Core Audio i.e not multi client Audio driver can’t listen to sounds in the finder, and most of all no spotlight indexing (the windows indexing never worked well enough) . Also Protools worked better under OS X . Also if you’re used to Logic it’s a pain to switch. When you build a hack from a golden build you can still dual boot for the price of a small SSD so really there’s nothing to lose . A few years back it might have been a bit geeky but these days it’s just too easy . The 8700k cpu really seems the best option. I find in the long term spending a bit more gives you a couple more years out of a Daw and when you factor in the hassle it is to change it seems worth it .

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