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How to Win in 2020

chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
Oh and Fox News is also fake news Brain Rot, but they’re smart enough to hire babes and have a different message than the other Dozen billionaire owned PR Firms.

So SHound is correct on that, but displaced aggression saying all who disagree watch Fox News is untrue.
We’re just racists and disbelievers in the ways of the lying Liberal.

Oh and it’s a fake ignore too.
I know he’s dying to react when he disables ignore but his discipline prevents this.
Learned that at his Alinsky 101 Class at NYU..
 
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As I said I only did a quick search and found some crackpot theories (masculinity is under threat). When I've read more about him we can discuss. Today is moving day 1, of 2 or 3. I'll be able to be more comprehensive once the dust settles.



I was making fun of your tortured vocabulary. Not everybody has the same sense of humor.

I'm definitely making fun of libertarianism, I think it's childish, entitled whining. And a favorite of the ignorant right wing don't read on me I like state's rights when they serve the things I like crowd.



You're not taking this list seriously as a demonstration of a civic minded leader? If you are, there's a bridge I think you might be interested in. Do you know anything at all about Donald Trump? I mean, anything?? At all??!?

Did you read the NY Times report on his financial history last year? If so, that is your very next stop. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Read the story. If you read it and still don't find it an outrage that he's in the white house, I can be of no further assistance.




Are you sure you don't watch Fox News every day, most of the day?





You didn't ask me for my news sources. Why do people on the right insist on employing the grammar school 'I know you are but what am I' line of argument? Most people outgrow that by 6th grade at the latest.

Regardless, my regular sources are PBS, NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times (not a great paper but I'm a local), The New Yorker, the Atlantic, The Economist. Then for fun/putting flesh on the corpse MSNBC, CNN, CSPAN. If I'm forgetting anything I'll be sure to post..

Don't be so defensive, I don't dismiss people based on their news sources, I dismiss them on their ideas. However, if they are digesting right wing propaganda; Fox News, right wing radio, alt right websites, then yes, they are dismissed out of hand.
I disagree with your view of libertarianism completely. I can lay most of the evils in this country safely on the shoulders of Democrats and Republicans. What wrongs have libertarians done? Guilty of being centrist and neutral to left and right extremes? Sure, maybe if more libertarians were in power, they'd be just as corrupt as any person from another political camp. It's not a particular person but the principles of the position that I stand for. Holding libertarian views also doesn't mean I strictly vote for 3rd party, I go for the lesser of two evils. I'm not a tribalist like some people. Hint, hint.

My language is far from tortured. Posit and normalized/normative are not sophisticated terms. It's just precise speech. If you understood what I meant, then good! I really don't see why this is a point in your argument...

Maybe you need to share which NYT article you're referring to, because I only found the ones talking about how Trump lost money in his personal businesses according to his tax info, and that a study didn't know where 1.5 trillion went. I guess you'll paint me as a Republican since I don't see why this puts a nail in the coffin, and I'll explain why:

The easier one to answer is the question about 1.5 trillion: If I divide that much equally among a majority but not all of the US, say 200 million people, then each person would receive $7.50. That amount of money being tossed into the economy is honestly quite negligible, and that's not really how you boost an enconomy anyway, hence why the study they cited only showed a 0.3% GDP increase from this particular tax bill. The article does admit also that everyone paid less in taxes, yet also rightly shows that higher-income earners got more in returns. This makes sense in context to me, because bigger corporations were being suffocated with higher taxes to begin with! They were already paying more than all of us by percentage! Furthermore, those tax cuts don't just include big corporations but also moderate-sized businesses as well, which I totally support. I also disagree with the notion that corporations just sit on money. It takes a crap ton of money to pump out a new iPhone for example. If corporations have more money and less taxes, then they can earn more, produce more, and increase the total market value. They invest that money, because it loses value overtime due to inflation, so sitting on it isn't even practical. I find how NYT uses this article to be short-sighted: these benefits grow and only reveal their positive output down the road. The Scrooge McDuck view on corporations is a socialist ideological interpretation, and I am not a supporter of socialism in the free market or in governments, where crippling corporations are propped up along with their banks (true story, demonstrating that the US government was already too socialist). I support socialism for roads and true social needs, but not for government leadership and the market. We are and should remain a Republic. In summary, I disagree with NYT that these tax cuts will only feed the top few CEOs of the world, because those corporations just keep churning out products and jobs, otherwise they stifle and die. It's economics. The real problem will be raising the minimum wage which kills low-end jobs and businesses, and increases the rate of inflation which makes those job raises negligible in a few years. That, and tax increases. Taxing corporations more just pockets that money to the government, instead of being invested back into the market. You want Trump to have all that corporate tax revenue? That would be nonsensical to your views, not to mention paradoxical!! It also forces corporations to charge more, pay less, and find tax loopholes. I'd rather charge corporations less and additionally get their lobbyists out of government.

Second one, about Trump losing money: I don't care what happens to the man's personal business life, because that's not his primary job now (and let's not forget that he rejected the presidential pension, the greedy bastard), and furthermore, this is BS: Sure, he had net loss at times, but the dude has built tons of businesses during his life. If you want to claim that he sucked at business his whole life, then you'd have to explain how he successfully raised so many businesses, with MONEY. His dad didn't leave him enough to create that many businesses and construct realstate alone! It's really paradoxical to me to even claim that he's been a failure and not say the same about Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs got kicked out of Apple before it was Apple for sucking, made success with Pixar and later rejoined Apple to make it great, but not all of his business operations were successes. Some were failures! Does that make Steve Jobs a failure? No! But I don't even need to be a conservative to see that left wing media outlets are OBSESSED with shaming the guy. You literally, and I mean literally, cannot deny that fact without rejecting reality and substitituing your own. It's really rediculous how often "orange man bad" is the talking point on CNN, for example (and somebody needs to fire Don Lemon--he's a massive embarrassment). I get so tired of it that I have to switch to something else. I just want the news, not opinion pieces! This is another reason why the democrats are losing independent voters (but the real reason is because of the lack of substance in the Democrat candidates). I've been saying that the left are going to lose the center voters if they keep pushing for welfare/free health insurance for illegals (all D candidates did at the debate), and for far left talking points. They're isolating themselves with this stuff... The polls even show indepedents don't care about impeaching Trump (start around 7:00):
NYT article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/07/upshot/trump-approval-rating-rise.html

Not sure why you sharing your resources when asking for mine isn't a fair thing to do. It looked like a loaded question to me, due to your rhetoric. You asked me for my sources with a kind of "And then we'll see what your true colors are," almost sinister remark, as though you were my judge who would condemn me to which ever label/political camp that you saw fit... That kind of crap gets a big NOPE from me.
Also, this getting me to defend Trump thing is sorta like a bait and switch. I was arguing against the fault of both left and right media propaganda, but now you've got me defending some of Trump's policies, which automatically paints me as a total "Trumpian" with no credibility to any tribalist on the left. The fact that you only mentioned left wing sources, to me, shows your tribal position. Do you even know what centrists/independents want or think, or recognize they exist? It's a rhetorical question.
 
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Soundhound

Senior Member
The sources I cited are left wing? Jesus f*cking christ. You are indeed a right wing ideologue. But if you are indeed steeped in right wing propaganda which you seem to be, then perhaps you missed the article which every informed person read last year: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html

I'll be on a plane for a few hours tomorrow and will have time to read your latest post in detail and give a full reponse.

Your language is not just tortured, it is rife with the most common right wing tropes. Tribalism first and foremost.

Why is it that right wing people insist they are not right wing?

More tomorrow when I can read your post more fully.
 
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The sources I cited are left wing? Jesus f*cking christ. You are indeed a right wing ideologue. But if you are indeed steeped in right wing propaganda which you seem to be, then perhaps you missed the article which every informed person read last year: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html

I'll be on a plane for a few hours tomorrow and will have time to read your latest post in detail and give a full reponse.

Your language is not just tortured, it is rife with the most common right wing tropes. Tribalism first and foremost.

Why is it that right wing people insist they are not right wing?

More tomorrow when I can read your post more fully.
So... you're saying that CNN and MSNBC are centrist? Which news outlet did you cite that was right wing or right of center? PBS certainly isn't right of center. The Washington Post isn't centrist or right wing, neither is NYT. Which news outlet did you cite that supports non-left views, specifically? From my experience, some of those, like CNN and the Washington Post USED to be more centrist, but they have went left in recent years, and all that you cited support leftist politics. Or, maybe it's you who is confused about what is and isn't left wing? If you don't watch at least a single right wing news outlet, then you're not being bi-partisan in the least. I still think you're tribal to the left, in this regard.

To really hit it home, here's the chart from AllSides. They don't list PBS or the local news you mentioned, but every other one you mentioned is left of center!! I can't believe you have the capacity to label me a right winger just for rightly calling you out for media bias: https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart

To paraphrase you, "why is it that left wing people pretend that they aren't left wing?" What does saying such grand, sweeping statements accomplish? Just like before, you're vilifying an entire category of people, and not even considering an entire cateogry: independents. You are part of the problem, labelling people only as left and right, dismissing individuals and jumping to big labels and identity politics. It's useless and detrimental! This is my main beef with you. You can't hold back the labels and vilifying of entire peoples for a second! Tribalism, tribalism, thy name is tribalism.

Not just tortured, aye? Well, how about you don't use those "rife" and "trope" words on me, you big-vocabulary swinging person, you! (rhetorical) 😛
... I still don't see how my speech is tortured. If you understand what I said, then no word salad was induced, and thus, no point stands for you attacking my form of speech. How very un-liberal of you to make fun of people like that. If I say "I don't like what you say because of how you talk," I've dismissed the person's argument, not on the grounds of their argument itself, but on the grounds of their person directly.

About the article on Trump dodging taxes: Thanks for sharing. I remember this story now, but I'm waiting on New York to finish investigating these allegations before I say for sure, and from what I've read, it may not even be Trump who was involved but his brother and other relatives? We'll see. I'm hesitant of "allegations" and "conspiracies" that the mainstream puts out these days, especially after Russia gate became a bust. Main stream barked about Russia relentlessly, but it's a total flop after Mueller's hearing. Now they just want to peg him for obstruction, even when Mueller won't definitively say. I get it, they just can't let it go. We'll see though. Maybe you're right on the tax evasion thing. If it turns out to be true, then I'm all for the necessary fines that apply to him. I hope you'll also equally wish that Apple would quit cheating with overseas loopholes and paying a miserable 5.5% tax rate on much of their assets too. These big tech companies might just be slipping by under the radar with all this Trump news filling our screens. 😉


EDIT: because this thread's topic is actually about 2020, maybe we can discuss the issue of Google swaying elections, since that's more of a real threat to the sovereignty of our election system? Tim Pool gives a good intro to the issue, after which the google leaks provided by Project Veritas and the research of Dr. Epstein are primary:
 
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ghostnote

Vincit qui se vincit.
Oy. I'll read more about Peterson, all I've gotten so far is he is widely regarded as the 'stupid person's intellectual', is a libertarian and believes that masculinity is under threat. Sounds like a crackpot at first glance. I'll read more over the coming days.
Watch his lectures which are available on youtube. He's great and a big fan of Carl Jung btw.

It is a deep strain throughout this country's history, it is the very worst part of who we are. We were on a long, slow path to progressing past it, but the reactionary, regressive right wing movement in the later half of the 20th century, and throughout this century so far, has embraced fear, racism and resentment to secure a deeply loyal following.
I don't agree. Objectively and talking strictly about non violent conservative movements, it's more of a countermovement, just like the peace movement during the 60s was a countermovement against the establishment. It has always been a tugging war between left and right. Back then the hippies were the rebels, now conservative movements are, due to Obamas liberal politics and political correctness in general. The system just tries to balance itself out.

Without trying to defend Trump or the radical right, but the recent radicalisation of white supremacists isn't something that appeared exclusively with Trumps election. The internet and alt right plays a huge role in this. Alex Jones founded infowars 20 years ago spreading fake news, aswell as Breitbart since over 10 years. Both of them had a huge growth in populartity even before Trump announced running for President.

It seems the more left you are the more you perceive libertarian and conservative attitude as far right. That's what I've been talking about when I ment there's only two sides, left and right, and if you dare to be against one single point of the left, then you are labeled right wing. If you ask me, that's pretty much ignorant. I for myself like to use my own brain and won't let myself classify to any camp. If many of those politicians would act like that, then there wouldn't be a TV star in office.
 
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Here is something interesting for a change. An article where journalists reviewed scientific literature about radicalization and extremism, and scrutinized the Trump movement with the tools and theories of said literature. This led them to formulate a falsifiable theory about how the Trump movement leads to a radicalization of a part of its followers. Their conclusion:

'There’s a simple measure for whether our basic theory here is, in a general sense, right: If it is, we will see a significant spike in white supremacist violence over the next few years. The Trump campaign has provided a baseline undemocratic ideation to hundreds of millions of people and also provided a platform through which extremists, both violent and non-violent, can recruit and cultivate. If our collective understanding of the process of violent radicalization is correct, the result will be blood.'

This was written in 2016.


Muk, you might also like this article on the effect of media coverage on mass shootings, by the Institute of Labor Economics. I'm about halfway through and I find it insightful: http://ftp.iza.org/dp11900.pdf
 
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chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
Everybody wants their voice heard, nobody cares except the freaks who like the free publicity that media and politicians provide, not to mention the Presidential candidates that fundraised off of each event within hours.

Poor Beto and DiBlassio.
They must be the only two in the world that don’t realize they’re losers...
 

chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
I haven’t heard any of Liberal friends picking one of these candidates yet.
Warren seems like she has better liars, sorry.....advisors crafting her messages.
Even though she fucked over Native Americans scamming the system claiming she was a Cherokee, she now has lots of free stuff for Native Americans.

Pretty sure she covered every ethnic group except white people so far.
But liars,...sorry......liberals usually save them for the general once they’ve got all of the Victims of society.

I’d b shocked if one of these people even mentioned a way to address the failure of Liberals policy dealing with homelessness.
I was homeless for three days last week, but we piss and shit in holes to avoid attracting California Black Bears.

Hey maybe they could put Shitters like outdoor concerts have on the corners.
At least try and keep diseases from spreading by the millions or rats feasting there.

So which of these Pole Dancers do Liberals here want as their President?

Don’t think Joe is going to make it.
He should check into an old folks home and take it easy.
He’s made enough money as a politician for 47 years.

Well I’m not ashamed to say I like Yang.
He’s offering free cash and since I’m not a Victim in need of help, the extra cash I would invest in the Markets for my youngest.

Hope yuze guys find somebody soon, right now it looks to be like the USA Women’s team against Thailand...13-0 ..yikes.
 
I haven’t heard any of Liberal friends picking one of these candidates yet.
Warren seems like she has better liars, sorry.....advisors crafting her messages.
Even though she fucked over Native Americans scamming the system claiming she was a Cherokee, she now has lots of free stuff for Native Americans.

Pretty sure she covered every ethnic group except white people so far.
But liars,...sorry......liberals usually save them for the general once they’ve got all of the Victims of society.

I’d b shocked if one of these people even mentioned a way to address the failure of Liberals policy dealing with homelessness.
I was homeless for three days last week, but we piss and shit in holes to avoid attracting California Black Bears.

Hey maybe they could put Shitters like outdoor concerts have on the corners.
At least try and keep diseases from spreading by the millions or rats feasting there.

So which of these Pole Dancers do Liberals here want as their President?

Don’t think Joe is going to make it.
He should check into an old folks home and take it easy.
He’s made enough money as a politician for 47 years.

Well I’m not ashamed to say I like Yang.
He’s offering free cash and since I’m not a Victim in need of help, the extra cash I would invest in the Markets for my youngest.

Hope yuze guys find somebody soon, right now it looks to be like the USA Women’s team against Thailand...13-0 ..yikes.
About Yang,

Money isn't free. Who's money? if nobody's, then they gotta print more, which leads to increased rate of inflation over time until the handouts become irrelevant in value (same thing that happens with minimum wage increase). Do the math: If the entire approx. 327 million US population qualifies for this basic universal income, then that's 327,000,000 x 1,000, which is $327,000,000,000 (327 billion) PER MONTH, or 3.9 trillion dollars per year!! Even if it's just 250 million people who receive it, that's still multiple trillions of dollars a year! That has to be added on top of the US balance that hasn't been balanced in decades! Where is that much "free" money going to come from?? 🤔🤔🤔


And the stock market is not the most reliable thing to invest in long-term, except for the few who are really deep in the system. The forex market is worth trillions compared to the US' market (US stock market is worth under 30 billion on average), if you really want to consider stock (watch this first if you do). I'm into small stocks, keeping my eggs spread out instead of in one basket, but real estate is where it's at. Even McDonalds is deeper into real estate than just selling burgers, to tell you the secret. And this is actually what many corporations do. That's where they really cash in. And no, I'm not talking about going into the real estate agent business. Don't be the hired-hand agent, and don't be self-employed (self-employed pay the highest in taxes). I mean be the self-sufficient owner/investor of properties that accrue wealth naturally. Real estate is how you stay ahead of inflation and the devaluing of the dollar! If it isn't putting cash in your pocket, it's a liability (like your house and car, contrary to how "experts" define an asset) but if it puts money in your pocket (rentals, leasing land, corporations, etc.) then it's an asset. Check out what Robert Kiyosaki has to say. He'll redpill you to the reality of fiat money in a post-1971 world, how to really look at debt, and how the rich actually get richer without being taxed (And how the government actually gives incentives in the form of tax reductions to investors, such as Trump--yup, when Trump said he avoided taxes because he was smart, he was really pointing to the US' tax incentives regarding real estate and investors). Learn about Cash Flow. It's a completely different world from what "educated" teachers with zero experience will tell you, and it's probably contrary to how you were educated as a kid. It's good to be honest with ourselves: if we aren't financially well-off, then hold off the prideful reaction to what people like Kiyosaki and other multi-millionaire investors have to say and reflect on the issue deeply. ;)


 
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chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
You should find these candidates “advisors” and send them these videos.
But my guess is they know the free stuff is lies and their voters are dummies that buy into the Rivers Of Honey.

So take away the free stuff, then analyze the candidate.
They have no plans, no concepts on dealing with adversity.
Just a bunch of sore losers desperately seeking Susan.

Trumps key advisor is a pretty smart guy who doesn’t conform to the usual fake polls that have never worked since Americans discovered MetaData and the NSA tapping into routers.
His advise is to not use opposing figures to taint the message, but rather prove the candidate is full of suit because lack of precedent.
One could argue the precedent itself is always a con job designed by wordsmiths.

I hope Pocahontas wins because she’s going to have all of these various plans targeted every category of victim here in the USA and Trump will easily destroy that because of her history of being a lying Liberal con artist.

Then move onto to foreign policy and national security where Liberals have a 100% record of cowardice and failure.

I see a landslide, not even close this time.
But Liberals might keep Congress because Independents love the fact nothing gets done when they’re in power.
They’ll probably have a Chinese collusion investigation or some other fundraising type of events because everything they do is based on money.

I still wish we could get free stuff from evil successful people.
 

Soundhound

Senior Member
So... you're saying that CNN and MSNBC are centrist? Which news outlet did you cite that was right wing or right of center? PBS certainly isn't right of center. The Washington Post isn't centrist or right wing, neither is NYT. Which news outlet did you cite that supports non-left views, specifically? From my experience, some of those, like CNN and the Washington Post USED to be more centrist, but they have went left in recent years, and all that you cited support leftist politics. Or, maybe it's you who is confused about what is and isn't left wing? If you don't watch at least a single right wing news outlet, then you're not being bi-partisan in the least. I still think you're tribal to the left, in this regard.

To really hit it home, here's the chart from AllSides. They don't list PBS or the local news you mentioned, but every other one you mentioned is left of center!! I can't believe you have the capacity to label me a right winger just for rightly calling you out for media bias: https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart
https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart

The country has moved dangerously far to the right over the last half century. The NY Times, PBS, the ABC/NBC/CBS news, all centrist.

Tribalism is a favorite trope of the right, which is why I'm assuming your bent is toward right wing politics. The whole idea, which you are pushing, is that the left and the right are essentially the same, pushing radical ideas. It's just not true. The right wing in this country has been a clear and present danger to the well being of the country for decades. Starting in earnest with Reagan and Nixon's race baiting and deregulation, through completely unnecessary, endless war, and finally the inevitable result of their politics and policies--the election of a fool like Donald Trump. With that, the right wing is now not just a danger to the U.S., but to the entire world.


QUOTE="Kaleb Davis, post: 4421215, member: 19323"]
To paraphrase you, "why is it that left wing people pretend that they aren't left wing?" What does saying such grand, sweeping statements accomplish? Just like before, you're vilifying an entire category of people, and not even considering an entire cateogry: independents. You are part of the problem, labelling people only as left and right, dismissing individuals and jumping to big labels and identity politics. It's useless and detrimental! This is my main beef with you. You can't hold back the labels and vilifying of entire peoples for a second! Tribalism, tribalism, thy name is tribalism.
[/QUOTE]

I never said I wasn't left wing. I most certainly am, social democrat is the closest I can come to categorizing it. My comment comes from discussions I have with people on the right. The farther to the right they are, the more they claim that they read both sides of all issues, and make their judgements on a per case basis. The more you dig, the more you find it's absolutely not true. I'm not counting people who consider Fox News a real news source, and/or people who listen to right wing radio. Those are the people for whom the Trump politics works like a charm, and the reason is he is one of them. He's able to preach to the choir, because he is a member of the choir. The racism, the xenophobia, the same free market, rugged individualist fantasy that Reagan sold to the country in the 80s, while handing it over to corporations. Those people aren't reachable.

I'm talking to people, like yourself, who consider the NY Times a left wing rag.


QUOTE="Kaleb Davis, post: 4421215, member: 19323"]
ot just tortured, aye? Well, how about you don't use those "rife" and "trope" words on me, you big-vocabulary swinging person, you! (rhetorical) 😛
... I still don't see how my speech is tortured. If you understand what I said, then no word salad was induced, and thus, no point stands for you attacking my form of speech. How very un-liberal of you to make fun of people like that. If I say "I don't like what you say because of how you talk," I've dismissed the person's argument, not on the grounds of their argument itself, but on the grounds of their person directly.
[/QUOTE]

I was teasing you! Jesus you people are so sensitive! (I like the Trumpian bolding of the word 'attacking' btw. SAD!) :) See another joke. Get it? Of course, any good joke has an element of truth in it....

QUOTE="Kaleb Davis, post: 4421215, member: 19323"]
About the article on Trump dodging taxes: Thanks for sharing. I remember this story now, but I'm waiting on New York to finish investigating these allegations before I say for sure, and from what I've read, it may not even be Trump who was involved but his brother and other relatives? We'll see. I'm hesitant of "allegations" and "conspiracies" that the mainstream puts out these days, especially after Russia gate became a bust. Main stream barked about Russia relentlessly, but it's a total flop after Mueller's hearing. Now they just want to peg him for obstruction, even when Mueller won't definitively say. I get it, they just can't let it go. We'll see though. Maybe you're right on the tax evasion thing. If it turns out to be true, then I'm all for the necessary fines that apply to him. I hope you'll also equally wish that Apple would quit cheating with overseas loopholes and paying a miserable 5.5% tax rate on much of their assets too. These big tech companies might just be slipping by under the radar with all this Trump news filling our screens. 😉
[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The overwhelming preponderance of evidence for Trump being wildly unsuited to be president is crystal clear to anyone with an even rudimentary awareness of current events. The left certainly made a mistake in hoping for Mueller's report to sew everything up, impeachment proceedings should have been started in the summer of 2017 after he fired Comey, it's probably too late now.

EDIT: because this thre's topic is actually about 2020, maybe we can discruduss the issue of Google swaying elections, since that's more of a real threato the sovereignty of our election system? Tim Pool gives a good intro to the issue, after which the google leaks provided by Project Veritas and the research of Dr. Epstein are primary:
I'll have a look at that. Just looking at it quickly, my reaction would be, "duh, no shit". Google, Facebook, Twitter et al all need to be regulated within an inch of their lives. They are now the commons, they are now where much of community discussion occurs, and as such should be treated as part of the public weal.

I've said in these threads ad infinitum that yes I totally agree the system is crooked, the game is rigged. For the last 50 years the right wing has sold the country lock stock and barrel to big business, and the democrats have have not been much better.

But there is a glaring difference. Democratic ascendency would not result in a Donald Trump, George W Bush, Ted Cruz, Rick Santorum or Chris Christie. It did result in Barrack Obama, and may now give us an Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, or at worst, Joe Biden if the country isn't really as far gone as I think it is. If you don't see the difference, we can't talk.

The system needs to be overhauled, of course. But right now the patient is hemorrhaging, we need to get republicans out of power and stop the bleeding. Then we can try to fix things for real. Equating the left and the right is exactly, precisely what big business loves to hear.
 
Dude. AllSides shows that NYT, CNN, etc., are going left. You're being a revisionist trying to say how "far right" we've gone. You're being a left-wing apologist by making excuses and calling these media outlets centrist. They aren't centrist (relevant Pew research link at bottom of comment).

You misunderstood my reverse joke about calling someone "rightwing who pretends not to be." r/wooosh right there... It was an explicit parody. I even noted how saying such grand statements accomplishes nothing. It's unlike your non-explicit joke. Now you say you were joking about my speech but then you say there's an element of truth to it? That looks like double-speech, or beating around the bush. Either you were serious and now you're just saving face or your jokes are overly antogonistic, trollish garbage. Your rhetoric was scalding--need I quote it? What else have you said that was a joke that I didn't call you out on? Because your "jokes" are so serious, I don't know when you are actually being serious now!

I said I'm open on where the evidence leads on Trump's finances, but you're looking for me to confirm a bias that I don't have. As far as money goes, you do realize that government tax laws rewards with reductions down to 0% for investors, right? I'm not kidding. Investors are the richest, most rewarded persons in America, the second most rewarded are big business owners. The reason? The government encourages businesses and investors to create jobs and housing for the country. If Trump really did commit crimes, don't go asking the left's fallen hero Bob Mueller to report it. Get someone who doesn't spend 2 years, tens of millions of dollars, and ends with a "I cannot say with certainty about it." I'm open about an investigation by real financial investigators, but I'm less convinced by left-wing journalists (with rising problems of activists) and partisan groups.

I believe GhostNote is right about you though, that you're going more and more left, and that you can't even tell what is centrist anymore. It's all "the far right" if it doesn't agree with the left these days. You should seriously reflect on this after being informed on what is actually left, center, and right, because you seem to confuse center with right and left with center. Pew research definitively confirms this shift to the left: https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/pew-research-center-study-shows-that-democrats-have-shifted-to-the-extreme-left/

Official Pew Research document: http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2017/10/05162647/10-05-2017-Political-landscape-release.pdf
 
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Soundhound

Senior Member
I'm cooking dinner, when I finish I'll respond in full. I'll just leave this particular breadcrumb. Why is it that right wingers always resort to the 'I know you are but what am I school of argument'? trump is famous for it, but internet goblins love it longtime. Which makes sense since that's exactly what he is: I say my joke went over your head, you say your joke went over my head, etc. etc. It makes me wonder if people on the right can't think for themselves. They just know how to absorb what is fed them and repeat it.

One more breadcrumb. I saw the country has moved dangerously to the right over the last 5 decades, and you're quoting a page from the Allsides website? Why not TMZ? Think for yourself, son.

More once the chicken and rice has been enjoyed and forgotten.



Dude. AllSides shows that NYT, CNN, etc., are going left. You're being a revisionist trying to say how "far right" we've gone. You're being a left-wing apologist by making excuses and calling these media outlets centrist. They aren't centrist (relevant Pew research link at bottom of comment).

You misunderstood my reverse joke about calling someone "rightwing who pretends not to be." r/wooosh right there... It was an explicit parody. I even noted how saying such grand statements accomplishes nothing. It's unlike your non-explicit joke. Now you say you were joking about my speech but then you say there's an element of truth to it? That looks like double-speech, or beating around the bush. Either you were serious and now you're just saving face or your jokes are overly antogonistic, trollish garbage. Your rhetoric was scalding--need I quote it? What else have you said that was a joke that I didn't call you out on? Because your "jokes" are so serious, I don't know when you are actually being serious now!

I said I'm open on where the evidence leads on Trump's finances, but you're looking for me to confirm a bias that I don't have. As far as money goes, you do realize that government tax laws rewards with reductions down to 0% for investors, right? I'm not kidding. Investors are the richest, most rewarded persons in America, the second most rewarded are big business owners. The reason? The government encourages businesses and investors to create jobs and housing for the country. If Trump really did commit crimes, don't go asking the left's fallen hero Bob Mueller to report it. Get someone who doesn't spend 2 years, tens of millions of dollars, and ends with a "I cannot say with certainty about it." I'm open about an investigation by real financial investigators, but I'm less convinced by left-wing journalists (with rising problems of activists) and partisan groups.

I believe GhostNote is right about you though, that you're going more and more left, and that you can't even tell what is centrist anymore. It's all "the far right" if it doesn't agree with the left these days. You should seriously reflect on this after being informed on what is actually left, center, and right, because you seem to confuse center with right and left with center. Pew research definitively confirms this shift to the left: https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/pew-research-center-study-shows-that-democrats-have-shifted-to-the-extreme-left/

Official Pew Research document: http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2017/10/05162647/10-05-2017-Political-landscape-release.pdf
 
I'm cooking dinner, when I finish I'll respond in full. I'll just leave this particular breadcrumb. Why is it that right wingers always resort to the 'I know you are but what am I school of argument'? trump is famous for it, but internet goblins love it longtime. Which makes sense since that's exactly what he is: I say my joke went over your head, you say your joke went over my head, etc. etc. It makes me wonder if people on the right can't think for themselves. They just know how to absorb what is fed them and repeat it.

One more breadcrumb. I saw the country has moved dangerously to the right over the last 5 decades, and you're quoting a page from the Allsides website? Why not TMZ? Think for yourself, son.

More once the chicken and rice has been enjoyed and forgotten.
Dude... really? Breadcrumbs? You can't absorb my post in whole context before responding? Accusing me of the "I know you are but what am I?" for calling out your garbage antagonistic jokes? Making grand sweeping accusations again for all right wingers? You making grand labelling statements is exactly what I was pointing out!! Unlike your joke, which was attacking me personally for the way I write. Okay, you know what? I'm done here. Just block me already, because you're a waste of time to discuss politics with. You're a die-hard tribalist, and I feel I've lost more faith in the idea of staunch tribalists who vilify their oposition becoming more open and moderate (you even made fun of libertarians and moderates) to bi-partisan compromises/views over the course of this discussion, at least when it comes to online debates.

And while you're hating on Allsides, don't forget to dismiss the Pew Research in a similar fashion. I bet you'll call Pew Research alt-right next.

I'll read what you have to say, but I think I'm done responding. I need to get my head out of politics and back to making music anyway. My fault for wasting time.
 
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chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
Fake news just hired McCabe, a liar who the FBI had to fire, and seeing this loser who failed at everything get a job on CNN just shows you how liars stick together.

Fredo and McCabe. That’s going to be interesting.
I hope his wife dumps his punk ass and takes half of the CNN money he makes.

I’m waiting for MSDNC to hire lying Liberal Peter Stryzck so he can piss off even more Americans.

Trump has to be happy at how the opposition is handing him a second term.

Calling these Liberal Fake News networks Centrist should be a new talking point on late night fake comedy shows.

Even the fake polls are a joke.
A fake Presidential candidate is still leading by double digits?
Anyone with an IQ above 80 knows this old goat is suffering from dementia.

Quit lying to people.
We know it’s an old white guy and a fake Indian trying to give free stuff away that will win this primary.

I can’t wait to watch these clowns get smoked by Trump.
They’ll try to convince us, the majority, the independents, that they were just kidding about reparations and free health care for border crashing criminals, and how they were going to pay for it.


Losers as leaders?
They must be the only people in America that think they got a shot at winning..

If Google, FakeBook and fake news couldn’t beat Trump in 2016, who thinks that after he delivered on so many promises that they are going to beat him now?

Sometimes you just need to give up the stage.
 

Soundhound

Senior Member
Yes you would be much better off spending your time making music, and I’ll block you to save us both the aggravation and wasted time.

And yes, on second reading it turns out i had been able to fully absorb your post while prepping dinner, herculean task though it may have been. (read: sarcasm) Your self congratulatory claim of evenhandedness comes from the thinnest of airs: I’m making the argument that the country has moved dangerously to the right, which you counter with the Allsides chart (i don’t lop them in with Pew research). Lame.

Mid century republicans, as much as a disagree with their aims and policies, bear no resemblance to the travesty the modern party has become. Under Eisenhower the top marginal tax rate was 90%. The EPA was started under Nixon. Ronald Reagan, the corporate toady who sold America the big lie of supply side economics, would be considered left of center today. If you don’t think the country has moved dangerously to the right, you are either a tea partying true believer, or willfully ignorant.

I’d say it’s been nice talking with you, but I suck at lying. As you were, soldier.
 
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chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
Dangerously moving right was just to remind your Liberal billionaires that decide who you vote for, that free thinking people object to the fake world of liberalism and all of its disgusting political correctness.

Pretty sure we’ll move dangerously to the left in 2024 because I don’t want Pence anywhere near nuclear weapons. He’s as bad as the Supreme Spinach Chin who thinks he’s Gods personal messenger.

When that time comes I’ll be ready for free stuff, and thanks to Trump there might actually be enough money for Rivers of Honey, with Unicorns and Glitter.
 
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