How to mix orchestral music - what plugins?

Discussion in 'Composition, Orchestration & Technique' started by hansandersen, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. marclawsonmusic

    marclawsonmusic Senior Member

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    I was going to say something about orchestration before Nick (and Mike Fox) chimed in here... but to quote HZ: 'orchestration is mixing'. So getting a balanced template and focusing on MIDI programming are a great place to start.
     
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  2. ghostnote

    ghostnote Vincit qui se vincit.

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    I agree. Had the chance to see the desk of a recording session of a concert performance the other day. Had a little chat with the engineer and noticed that the only thing that he processed was indeed the singers. The orchestra is built in mind to take advantage of the full spectrum and simultaniously leave every instrument section its own space.

    Mixing samples tough, is different.
     
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  3. LowweeK

    LowweeK Loïc D

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    Agree too.
    If the mix sounds bad, blame the arrangement / orchestration.

    (That said I'm still at a stage where both orchestration & mix are guilty)
     
  4. ChrisSiuMusic

    ChrisSiuMusic Active Member

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    If the arrangement is already great, check the balance between the instruments next. Mixing is really all about the balance between everything - you'll find automation plays a huge role in this.
     
  5. bryla

    bryla Senior Member

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    Just to hit the point again: I get sent a lot of composer demos and their project files. The ones that sound best have the least amount of processing and clearest arrangement.
     
  6. AdamKmusic

    AdamKmusic Active Member

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    Thinking about picking up Seventh Heaven (seen some comments in here about it), I'm currently running the demo version without an iLok but it says it requires it? In my iLok License Manager I have iLok cloud which it is registered on, can I use that full the version too? If anyone knows..


    EDIT: Ahh basically an always online thing, guess I’ll skip until I get a ilok USB
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  7. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    By the way, the reason samples require so much work - or the main reason - is because they're not players listening to each other!
     
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  8. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    Of course, it depends on the context. That wouldn't apply to electronica, for example!

    But there is a temptation to keep adding stuff, just because we have it and feel like we should be using it.
     
  9. bryla

    bryla Senior Member

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    Of course! The topic however is how to mix orchestral music.
     
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  10. ProfoundSilence

    ProfoundSilence Member

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    I don't think I've ever seen him say that, infact if anything stereotypical HZ has nothing to do with a traditional balanced orchestra

    what you're saying is true about orchestral music ofcourse, it just doesn't really line up with something HZ himself seems like he'd say(or atleast he pretty much champions the exception of it)
     
  11. marclawsonmusic

    marclawsonmusic Senior Member

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    I was referring to this post from a few years back -> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/tips-on-improving-my-epic-percussions.37492/#post-3778925
     
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  12. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    From that link:

    "I can control the mics in my sampler, but I love the sound of the room more than the close-mics. But obvious one trick that helps to preserve clarity is to move the far mics and out-riggers forward in time and line all the transients up. I know that's impossible in nature - that time is determined by the distance of one mic to the other - but it still gives me a huge sound without getting all that flammy transient shit."

    What's unclear in my brain - assuming Hans is still talking about samples - is how he moves the far mics and out-riggers forward without also moving the transients they're married to, but that is an interesting post.

    Also interesting: *increasing* the predelay on strings is a good way to get clarity + big sound.
     
  13. Wally Garten

    Wally Garten Active Member

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    In context it reads (to me) like he's actually talking about new recordings just for that piece, rather than stock samples. So I'd assume he's using multiple tracks: close mics on one track, far mics on another. Then just edging the far mic audio backward slightly to line up its transient with the transient in the close mic track? Must be a VERY small nudge, though -- even if your far mics are quite far away, I can't imagine the transients are very far apart. But it makes sense that lining them up would provide better clarity.
     
  14. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    I think you're right that it's live recordings.

    Just to be clear, lining up percussion transients is a standard thing. Engineers have been doing that with drum mics since Pro Tools (at least that's when I first heard of it).
     
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  15. dawelsch

    dawelsch New Member

    I suggest you spend time on your rudimentary skills in mixing and continue listening to great scores to get the cinematic sound in your head.

    At the same time, I recommend watching this, and many others like it:



    It is quite advanced, however, Jake’s philosophy of mixing is quite simple and interesting.
     
  16. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    It is different, no question.

    However, the "get it done quickly" film/TV sessions I'm talking about are somewhat different from regular classical recordings, which often have a lot of edits. And often there aren't even spot mics on live concert recordings (just a Decca tree or similar hanging from the ceiling - like EastWest's main mic position, by the way).
     
  17. Mega

    Mega New Member

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    That's my number one crime. I love reverb!
     
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