How do you set up your orchestral template?

Discussion in 'Workflow Tips & DIYs' started by elfman, Feb 5, 2018.

  1. kenose

    kenose New Member

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    May 5, 2019
    Wow, that seems like it would be a workflow killer for many people. 20mb project file with two patches is nuts.
     
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  2. MartinH.

    MartinH. Senior Member

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    Jun 16, 2018
    It varies extremely and 10mb per patch is the biggest I've seen. The Action Strikes "hits" patch adds about 0.7 mb, and Metropolis Ark 1 patches seem to add roughly 2 to 4mb each.


    I know we have quite a few Reaper users here, do you all use VEPro or don't have big templates with lots of libraries loaded?
     
  3. Quasar

    Quasar Senior Member

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    Jun 26, 2012
    I've made a few large templates (approx 400 tracks), but use custom actions so that the tracks are all in a default disabled state upon opening, then can either use Alt+E to enable/Alt+D to disable selected tracks, or use toolbar buttons created on the Main Toolbar to do the same. I got some help a couple of years ago to figure out a good way to do this, and it works splendidly. When the tracks are disabled, they consume virtually no system resources and the template loads extremely quickly. But tracks can be easily and quickly activated as needed.

    The macros are setup as follows:

    Disable:
    Xenakios/SWS: Set selected tracks record unarmed
    Track: Set all FX offline for selected tracks
    Xenakios/SWS: Bypass FX of selected tracks
    Track: Lock track controls

    Enable:
    Track: Unlock track controls
    Track: Set all FX online for selected tracks
    Xenakios/SWS: Unbypass FX of selected tracks
    Xenakios/SWS: Set selected tracks record armed

    Then in Theme Development you can tweak the color of your locked track overlay color and transparency to taste. I like to make it fairly obvious at a glance whether a track is disabled or not.
     
  4. MartinH.

    MartinH. Senior Member

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    Jun 16, 2018
    Thanks for the recommendation! But I believe that addresses a different issue. At least I can't imagine how freezing tracks would prevent the project file from getting big because the plugin settings need to be saved either way or else they would get lost.
    Can you please check how big the .rpp file of your biggest orchestral template is on your harddisk? That would be interesting to know.

    RAM isn't the issue here because the RAM load of the loaded sample libraries should not affect the saving time of the project file. It will affect the loading time (greatly) compared to your method, but I only load once and save often, so I'm more worried about optimizing the saving time, especially to make a quicker autosave interval feasible.
     
  5. Quasar

    Quasar Senior Member

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    Jun 26, 2012
    On the hard disk itself, in Reaper's Project Templates folder, my largest "master" template currently has 358 tracks, and the .rpp weighs in at 163 MB. It loads virtually instantaneously in its disabled state (about the same as empty tracks would), and in Reaper's Performance tab in the dock it shows CPU hovering between approx. 0.6% and 1.0% (i7 2600).

    The utilized RAM displays as 454 MB. Just as an experiment, I enabled 6 selected Kontakt 5 Spitfire Albion instrument tracks (with a single click) and the memory usage then jumped to about 3 GB.

    Disabling and locking a track in Reaper is different than freezing it, though I don't know the nuances of how that all works in terms of resource consumption. All I know is that I can have fairly large templates without long waiting times and without fuss, and that performance and resource limitations do not seem to come into play until the active project itself gets too large, IOW too full of fully-unlocked, enabled tracks.

    EDIT: I haven't analyzed saving times, but it hasn't been a noticeable issue, as I believe that when saving the time is only affected by the enabled tracks active in the project, and that the disabled, locked and unused tracks do not add to the amount of time it takes to save a project. Or if they do, it's not significant.
     
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  6. MartinH.

    MartinH. Senior Member

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    Jun 16, 2018
    Thanks a lot for giving me all that info! It turns out you were right all along and I was making the wrong assumptions. I saw both filesize and saving time increase roughly in sync, thus I thought the filesize causes the longer delay and that anything that doesn't affect filesize couldn't also affect saving time - which is wildly incorrect as it turns out. When I save an empty project with just 8x kontakt instances with one action strikes ensemble patch each, that takes about 18 seconds to save, but when I freeze all tracks it saves basically instantaneously. This is huge! I need to rethink how I'm handling my template in regards to freezing tracks. So far I always had enough RAM to keep everything loaded and valued the convenience of not having to deal with the delays for freezing and unfreezing tracks, but now that I know it can cut down dramatically on saving times, I need to rething that approach and at the very least freeze all the tracks that I haven't used in a project yet.

    Thanks!
     
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