Help with Cubase 10, Kontakt (5 or 6), and Controller

Discussion in 'Your DAW (Digital Audio Workstation)' started by husker, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. husker

    husker Member

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    Nov 22, 2017
    Greetings,

    I'm hoping someone here can help me, as my problem is related to Cubase, Kontakt, and orchestral VSTs (probably a common combination here on VI-Control). From the outset, I am a hobbyist (and a relatively new one), so forgive my lack of knowledge or incorrect terminology.

    I have a Roland FA08 as a controller, and my issue is regarding the modwheel. The modwheel on the FA08 is a common configuration - you push up or down for mod, left and right for pitch bend.

    1) While in Kontakt I load up, say for example, NI Symphony Series strings or Cinematic Studio Strings. When I move the modwheel up and down, the volume/expression (whatever happens to be mapped by default to the modwheel) works perfectly. I can see on the Kontakt instance the modwheel moves up and down, and I can hear the volume/expression changing. Everything works perfectly.

    2) I record a simple part. IF I use the modwheel during the recording, the volume/expression is recorded along with the part. I can see that "data" overlayed on the midi part (I haven't figured out why it overlays this data - I'm still learning Cubase).


    This is what does NOT work:

    I often want to simply record a part (focusing on the performance), then automate the volume/expression via an automation track. If I record the part without the modwheel data, then add an automation track for volume/expression, the modwheel will not work. I've tried adding all kinds of tracks related to that data, Midi channel automation tracks (CC1 Modulation, CC11 - Expression), Kontakt automation tracks (e.g. Volume - CSS 1s), and nothing works. I obviously can draw in the data, but I'd really like to use the modwheel.

    What I just don't understand is why it would work while I record the initial part, but not on an automation track.

    I've been fighting this for several days, if any of you have any ideas, I'm all ears.

    Thank you.
     
  2. A.G

    A.G Active Member

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    Jun 26, 2011
    Bulgaria
    I guess you do not make a difference between Host and MIDI automation. For example when you record MIDI in real time Cubase records the Modwheel as MIDI automation and Kontakt responds to that.
    Try to draw CC1 or CC11 directly in the Key Editor, this is a MIDI automation type.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    husker

    husker Member

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    Nov 22, 2017
    I can certainly draw it in with a mouse, but I would much rather use the modwheel. Are you saying I am using the wrong type of automation track?

    I'm really trying to learn DAWs and Cubase.
     
  4. A.G

    A.G Active Member

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    Jun 26, 2011
    Bulgaria
    It seems you are doing something wrong. Did you try to record the Modwheel using the same track where you have recorded the Note data (music)?
     
  5. OP
    OP
    husker

    husker Member

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    Nov 22, 2017
    Yes, same track. I agree, there has to be something I'm doing wrong.
     
  6. A.G

    A.G Active Member

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    Jun 26, 2011
    Bulgaria
    What happens when you record (merge) the new recording of the Modulation data with the Note data in the original track?
     
  7. OP
    OP
    husker

    husker Member

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    Nov 22, 2017
    AG - that works. It will record that data merged with the midi notes. So the controller is fine.

    What happens then, however, if I open up the midi part, there is nothing there (I can't see the notes or anything).

    I must just not be setting the right automation track.

    I'll take NI Symphony series strings. The "Dynamics" is mapped to the modwheel by default. According to the documentation, it is also Midi CC 1. Everything works fine until I add an automation track with Midi CC1 - it just doesn't work there.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  8. A.G

    A.G Active Member

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    Jun 26, 2011
    Bulgaria
    Could you create a short Video and provide a link here so we can get an idea of your way?
     
  9. OP
    OP
    husker

    husker Member

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    Nov 22, 2017
    I can't do a video, but let's try some pictures.

    1) This is NI String Ensemble - the dynamics function here is by default mapped to CC1. When I move my modwheel, this moves correctly (and at the botttom, the on screen keyboard's modwheel moves as well). All Good.

    [​IMG]


    2) I record a simple midi part. I then add an automation track like this: Add Parameter - All CC - CC1 (Modulation)

    [​IMG]

    At this point, the modwheel will NOT work - it moves the dynamics knob in the Kontakt instance, and it makes an audible difference, but it will NOT move the automation track at all.


    3) If I use that same automation track, and manually draw in data like this, the dynamics knob moves - this (to me) tells me this is the right type of automation.

    [​IMG]

    4) If I record "over" the midi part and merge, the modwheel WILL work correctly, seen here:

    [​IMG]

    Does that help?

    Again, thank you for your efforts to help me.
     
  10. labornvain

    labornvain New Member

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    Feb 9, 2014
    Right. Don't use the automation track. Use the method that corresponds to number four in your post.

    But note in your fourth picture but there are little lines going across the midi part. That's Cubase telling you that you have two MIDI parts that are stacked on top of each other.

    Use the glue tool to merge those two parts together, then when you double-click you'll see your midi data.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  11. OP
    OP
    husker

    husker Member

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    Nov 22, 2017
    Thank you. So you are saying it is not possible to use the modwheel on an automation track? I guess I don't know how that would be different. If it isn't possible, I guess "it is what it is."
     
  12. A.G

    A.G Active Member

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    Jun 26, 2011
    Bulgaria
    It is possible (I show that in the Video below).

    Originally, I let you know that recording (overlapping) the ModWheel (method 4 in your schemes) is easy and recommended. This is a true MIDI automation which can be edited easily in the Cubase Key editor CC1 lane.

    I guess that you want to use Host automation to be able to use the elegant curves which is not possible in the Key Editor MIDI editing?

    OK, I just exported a short Video tutorial where I demonstrate how to assign a Kontakt parameter to a non-assigned Host automation number and use the Cubase Quick Controls to link that parameter to your external Controller (Modulation Wheel) in your case.

     
  13. OP
    OP
    husker

    husker Member

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    Nov 22, 2017
    Thank you AG. I'm traveling now, but will try your method when I get home.

    I must learn the difference between host automation and midi automation.

    >I guess that you want to use Host automation to be able to use the elegant curves which is not possible in the Key Editor MIDI editing?

    Correct. I like to keep things separated I guess. I see I can see this midi automation data in a "controller lane" in the key editor. That is an option as well.

    Again, thank you for your help - I'll look into this and report back when I return from my trip.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    husker

    husker Member

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    Nov 22, 2017
    AG -

    I can't thank you enough. I got it working thanks to your video. They key was that I did not have my FA-08 set up correctly in the Studio Setup.

    Thank you so much!!!!
     
  15. A.G

    A.G Active Member

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    Jun 26, 2011
    Bulgaria
    Be welcome! :thumbsup:
     

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