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Help Choosing first Orchestral Library

el-bo said:
There is a part of me that thinks that if I were just starting out, and had absolutely nothing else, that I'd be happy to pay them the yearly $200, just make music and forget about all the "What about that other..." distraction. Of course, I understand the need for more diverse tools (I appreciate that, also). But I could definitely work within their extended sound-palette and be pretty content :2thumbs:
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It’s not the yearly $200. It’s that if you decide to stop, and then down the road have to recall anything, you will need to sign up again. And unless you pay for the start and stop option, you might be stuck paying for another year. Not sure. It’s really not worth it long term u less you use every single library in the sub. But if you’re using just the orchestra gold, you can buy it outright for the same yearly. But you have options and that’s what it’s all about.
 
jaketanner said:
It’s not the yearly $200. It’s that if you decide to stop, and then down the road have to recall anything, you will need to sign up again. And unless you pay for the start and stop option, you might be stuck paying for another year. Not sure. It’s really not worth it long term u less you use every single library in the sub. But if you’re using just the orchestra gold, you can buy it outright for the same yearly. But you have options and that’s what it’s all about.
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If your interest is in just the orchestra, pay to demo for a month and then buy it outright.

However, again, I do think that for somebody just starting out in music, who had quite eclectic tastes, would do well just saying up, asking music and forgetting about everything else.
Think about the alternatives if, for example, a complete newb wanted access to choirs, orchestra, drums, epic drums and ethnic instruments, along with a smattering of keys, guitars and synths. The amount of hours of research, trawling forums and the possibility of making some pretty expensive mis-steps. Or just commit to $200 and just start making music. No need to overrun and incur an extra year's charges, as we all have electronic calendars in our pockets. And as long as everything was mixed-down before cancellation, no need to return (Of course, it'd only cost another month's payment if something was absolutely critical to revisit).

It's possible to pick up most of their stuff at pretty good prices. So if after that year there were things that one wanted to keep, it wouldn't be too much stress to pick this items up.

Honestly, man, I'm really not trying to sell this to you. I also don't like subscription models, and I can see the arguments against doing it. It really ain't a hill I'm looking to die on. However, watching the walktrhough videos and listening to the audio made me really want to join up and just dive in.And I have alternative options ;)
 
I hope I may jump in with a closely related question without hijacking the thread altogether, I'm in a similar situation as the OP and looking for an entry library. However, I'm looking for something more rounded, for softer parts as well. I'm an indy games developer and want to make my own music for my games, but mostly just for fun. Which also means I don't intend to spent lots of money on dozens of libraries. I looked at Nucleus as well and for currently $299 it would make sense. But I also had a look at Abbey Road One and the sound, especially for softer parts and in dynamics, is really fantastic. And with $349 (and let's see if anything else comes with their Black Friday deal) it's not a big difference in price.

I'm not a musician though and will probably never become one. I have some basic knowledge about Orchestration, but not too much. Would ARO still suit me or are the missing Legatos too big of deal? And do you think the time I would need to invest in learning to use ARO would be far more than for Nucleus? Would Nucleus still be the better option or go with ARO, or something else altogether?
 
johnfields said:
I hope I may jump in with a closely related question without hijacking the thread altogether, I'm in a similar situation as the OP and looking for an entry library. However, I'm looking for something more rounded, for softer parts as well. I'm an indy games developer and want to make my own music for my games, but mostly just for fun. Which also means I don't intend to spent lots of money on dozens of libraries. I looked at Nucleus as well and for currently $299 it would make sense. But I also had a look at Abbey Road One and the sound, especially for softer parts and in dynamics, is really fantastic. And with $349 (and let's see if anything else comes with their Black Friday deal) it's not a big difference in price.

I'm not a musician though and will probably never become one. I have some basic knowledge about Orchestration, but not too much. Would ARO still suit me or are the missing Legatos too big of deal? And do you think the time I would need to invest in learning to use ARO would be far more than for Nucleus? Would Nucleus still be the better option or go with ARO, or something else altogether?
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Nucleus, Albion One and Berlin Orchestra Inspire are the usual choices for an all in one starter library. There are several libraries from Project Sam (including an excellent free one!) that you might also like, especially for games scoring.

I'm not at all impressed with AR1. Daniel James did a very fair review of it, and it has the usual Spitfire problems. The hall sound is quite nice, but you're stuck with it so tough luck if you wanted a drier sound or more brightness or bite for any reason.
 
johnfields said:
I hope I may jump in with a closely related question without hijacking the thread altogether, I'm in a similar situation as the OP and looking for an entry library. However, I'm looking for something more rounded, for softer parts as well. I'm an indy games developer and want to make my own music for my games, but mostly just for fun. Which also means I don't intend to spent lots of money on dozens of libraries. I looked at Nucleus as well and for currently $299 it would make sense. But I also had a look at Abbey Road One and the sound, especially for softer parts and in dynamics, is really fantastic. And with $349 (and let's see if anything else comes with their Black Friday deal) it's not a big difference in price.

I'm not a musician though and will probably never become one. I have some basic knowledge about Orchestration, but not too much. Would ARO still suit me or are the missing Legatos too big of deal? And do you think the time I would need to invest in learning to use ARO would be far more than for Nucleus? Would Nucleus still be the better option or go with ARO, or something else altogether?
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This depends on what kind of music you intend to write. If you want to write convincing leading melody lines, I’d say legato is quite important. And perhaps even more than that, the six great solo instruments Nucleus comes with.

If you’re fine with orchestral pads, swells, soundscapes, ostinatos, and atmospheres, and don’t intend to do strong melodies or solo instrument parts, ARO sounds fantastic, and legatos and solos will of course be added through expansions later.
 
Thank you. I'm mostly looking for a large dynamic range. I would like to make some music for my own games, which is usually some moderately epic title theme for the start screen (as in, some soft and some epic parts - the title theme for "World of Warcraft" is a good example for the general dynamic range I'm looking for (but not for the sound as libraries changed a lot since the times of WoW)) and also some epic combat and victory music, but mostly it's softer because the music should generally stay in the background and nobody would like to hear epic music all over the game. So far, I fell in love with ARO and maybe BBC Core. I love how they sound in softer parts AND in epic parts. The dynamic range is great and especially ARO sounds brilliant in that regard. I like Nucleus for epic parts but not so much for softer parts. It sounds too artificial to me. Most of the typical beginner libraries don't sound that great on the softer side, they still just sound like an epic orchestra toned down in volume or a bit artificial for my taste. The dynamics from playing softly and switching to epic doesn't come close to what I heard in Demos from ARO/BBC. So I was wondering if starting with ARO, maybe combined with BBC discover and other free libraries, or starting with BBC Core may actually make more sense for. Especially as they are at a comparable price to Nucleus and even cheaper than Albion (though I'll wait for the Spitfire Black Friday to see about that). I'm not sure though if e.g. ARO with some free additions would offer me all I need - and there are also some complaints about the software which bother me.
 
johnfields said:
... what I heard in Demos...
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Don't judge products based on the company demos. My wallet learnt that the hard way.

Better to listen to actual users and reviewers on YouTube for example. Daniel James is my favourite, closely followed by @Cory Pelizzari. You should definitely watch the whole of Daniel's review of AR1.

Your approach of having a starter all in one library supplemented by free bits and pieces is perfectly viable. Albion One, Nucleus, Inspire or one of the Project Sams would be fine as the core library. Please forgive a self example as an illustration. Hopefully it sounds alright and offers an alternative approach to buying expensive specialist products.




Paid-for stuff
Nucleus
Majestic Horn
A couple of synths, NISS and various percussion from Komplete/Kontakt

Free stuff
Angry brass and some strings from Performance Samples (no longer available I think)
Some string patches from Spitfire LABS
A bass guitar from Pianobook
Leeds Town Hall organ (Samplephonics)
Mihai Sorohan Vowel Choir
Thunder Taiko (Strezov Sampling)
Bits and pieces from the Project Sam free orchestra
Some traditional Korean string and percussion instruments (can't remember from where, sorry)
Epic Trailer Sounds (Audio Imperia)
Free Angels (8Dio)
Cling Film Frame Drum (Kralc)
Wooden Percussion (Kralc)
Raw Power Metallic Percussion (Riverwood Air)
Cinematic Synthetic Drums (Impact Soundworks)
I made some of the trailer FX myself and found others in various free packs.
 
BBCSO and ARO would likely be quite easy to combine both in terms of workflow and sound.

Out of the two, I would start with BBCSO since it’s already complete and includes everything, in comparison to ARO which is still quite barebones in comparison.

In the future ARO will be more complete and likely be a great addition to BBCSO, but at the time being, BBCSO will be able to do much more (legatos, sections, solos).
 
Hi everyone,
Just wanted to say thank you to everyone that helped me out with getting started, it was a bit daunting looking at all the different options. After going away and listening to a lot of demos I think I will be getting Nucleus and will consider getting Jaeger or at least hanger 4 at some point in the future
 
Subscribe to EW composer cloud. It will cover you until you learn a bit more and is even cheaper for students. While you use it, follow this site, watch for deals and new releases, eventually something will catch your attention for being really good. Find the users on this site who often post demos who are competent and give a fair example of what the best people can do with a library and listen to those more carefully. Listening to poor user demos is pointless because the limiting factor in those is the user (or in many cases their attitude towards noodling with a new library and posting the results) and not the software...
 
purple said:
Find the users on this site who often post demos who are competent and give a fair example of what the best people can do with a library and listen to those more carefully. Listening to poor user demos is pointless because the limiting factor in those is the user (or in many cases their attitude towards noodling with a new library and posting the results) and not the software...
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Aside from being rude, this is terrible advice. If you’re new to composing or orchestral libraries, the polished product in demos and super experienced composers set up a false expectation.

That’s why hearing what a library sounds like in a beginner’s hands or even a noodling around session on YouTube gives a more accurate idea of what the library will sound like in their hands at first as a counterpoint to professional level mock-ups is so important.
 
The Serinator said:
Aside from being rude, this is terrible advice. If you’re new to composing or orchestral libraries, the polished product in demos and super experienced composers set up a false expectation.

That’s why hearing what a library sounds like in a beginner’s hands or even a noodling around session on YouTube gives a more accurate idea of what the library will sound like in their hands at first as a counterpoint to professional level mock-ups is so important.
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In either case the limiting factor is how good the user is at manipulating the library. At least if you get one that has more potential than you can grasp right away, there is room to grow. If you buy libraries based on what you think is "possible" with it as a beginner, you will inevitably grow out of that library and long for the better ones as your skill increases. When I'm evaluating which library I want to blow hundreds of $ on, I want to evaluate that based on how far that library can take me, not based on how good it sounds out of the box or based on what I can do with it on day one... This avoids the beginner wasting their money on libraries that will collect dust in a few months or a year once the initial "inspiring" feeling about it wears off and the library feels like a prison. (okay maybe this is a bit dramatic but I think you get the point)
 
The Serinator said:
If you’re new to composing or orchestral libraries, the polished product in demos and super experienced composers set up a false expectation.

That’s why hearing what a library sounds like in a beginner’s hands or even a noodling around session on YouTube gives a more accurate idea of what the library will sound like in their hands at first as a counterpoint to professional level mock-ups is so important.
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Couldn't agree more! I always prefer those "noodling around walkthroughs". I want to listen how exactly the instruments/patches sound, one-by-one, exposed, out of the box, and not some flawless demo featuring countless hours of programming from experts, and possibly several professional EQs and reverbs that I couldn't even afford.
 
purple said:
Find the users on this site who often post demos who are competent and give a fair example of what the best people can do with a library and listen to those more carefully. Listening to poor user demos is pointless
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I hope that wasn't a sideways dig at me or @The Serinator (or indeed Tom Hawk's work) for posting examples we thought might be helpful to a buyer.

The music doesn't sound any better or worse depending on whether the composer has been awarded the purple badge of competence. It just sounds how it sounds and might help people form an opinion of the library, instead of just going by highly prepared demos from the developer.
 
Cathbad said:
I hope that wasn't a sideways dig at me or @The Serinator (or indeed Tom Hawk's work) for posting examples we thought might be helpful to a buyer.

The music doesn't sound any better or worse depending on whether the composer has been awarded the purple badge of competence. It just sounds how it sounds and might help people form an opinion of the library, instead of just going by highly prepared demos from the developer.
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Not at anyone in particular, and most of those who regularly post demos know what they are doing to a degree. It's about people who rush to buy a library and post some really nonsense screwing around with it that might turn people off.
 
jaketanner said:
It’s not the yearly $200. It’s that if you decide to stop, and then down the road have to recall anything, you will need to sign up again. And unless you pay for the start and stop option, you might be stuck paying for another year. Not sure. It’s really not worth it long term u less you use every single library in the sub.
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Even then it makes no sense long term IMO. Why spend hundreds and still have nothing when you could just buy and have it forever?

Nucleus looks interesting, although lacking some solo instruments is a deal-killer for me.

One thing that doesn't seem to be getting much consideration or discussion is how easy is a library to learn? For some that might not matter, but for others it's huge.
 
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