Friends, do not let the media stir you up, please!

sIR dORT

Active Member
Wildly incorrect, profoundly ignorant and dangerously deluded. This kind of thinking is only possible if you have digested and metabolized right wing propaganda. Fox News is not a news gathering organization. It was started for the express purpose of furthering right wing propaganda.

The NY Times et al are news gathering organizations. Not understanding the difference is what allows con men like Trump in the U.S. and the pro brexit forces in the U.K. to gain power. Confusing real news organizations with propaganda publicists is the single most dangerous phenomenon of our time. Trump isn’t the problem, an ignorant and frightened electorate is the problem. People who are incurious and gullible enough to swallow propaganda, are the problem.
I don't think most Americans are as stupid as you make them out to be. I'm never going to convince you I don't think and you're not going to convince me, but at least give the average American enough of the benefit of the doubt so that they at least can see through whatever crap is thrown at them (I'm gonna leave crap be ;)). I can be confident when I say that they are not the problem.
 

chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
If you want to see fake news in action watch the CNN reports where they give Democrats the coverage about doom and gloom coming out of the Iranian Intel briefings. They didn’t give air time to anyone unless they were anti Trump.
Then they edited Senator Graham’s response.
All purposely crafted to make Trump look like a War Hawk, when the repositioning of assets was advice from allies and the Pentagon.
The Carrier Group was assigned to be there in late summer regardless of what the Supreme Spinach Chin did.

And since when do Holy Men order attacks on infrastructure and personnel?

Can you imagine the Pope walking around in his glorious Garments with that big International House Of Pancakes hat looking over a scaled model of the region with assets deciding areas to strike?

Thank God it’s not namby pamby John Kerry who would launch a single missile towards a building in response to militia attacks ordered by Iran?
That measured response shit is lame.

At least Pompeo said “unrelenting”..
In other words blow the hell out of your entire regime until you capitulate or the citizens decide to get rid of these whackos.

Political correctness hss no place in armed conflict.
You either want to win or as Liberals prefer, not lose.

I could just see Obamas team discussing destroying an ISIS stronghold, but cancel at the last minute because within a mile was an Islamic Puppy Shelter.
 

TheNorseman

Active Member
They’re popular because Liberals love watching it.
They claim they’re interested in the enemy’s plans.
I think they just like being angry all the time.

I can’t stomach 2 minutes of the Partisan crap.
But CNBC and FBN get my biz. I like hearing evil CEOs and brilliant billionaire investors talk about the markets. Even Bankers are worth listening to if they have a record of being correct.

But when I really want to know how the economy is doing I read Paul Krugman from the NYTimes.

Whatever he says, you just do the opposite and you’ll be on top of your game.
Fox News has the highest viewership and they get 3.5 million on prime time. That's 1% of the population. CNN is in the tubes in at 500,000 on prime time. They both used to get 15-20 million on prime time 20-30 years ago. The median age range for cable new is 60+ years old.

The point is, no one is getting their information from cable news anymore. Fox News should not be triggering Soundhound's paranoia.
 

Soundhound

Senior Member
People on the right are stupid, not all people, try not to put words in other people’s mouths. You need a certain level of ignorance, selfishness, venality and resentment to fall for the right wing sales pitch. A mendoza line of stupidity/cupidity. Trump supporters are a lost cause, they are to be ignored, life is too short to argue with stupid people.

I don't think most Americans are as stupid as you make them out to be. I'm never going to convince you I don't think and you're not going to convince me, but at least give the average American enough of the benefit of the doubt so that they at least can see through whatever crap is thrown at them (I'm gonna leave crap be ;)). I can be confident when I say that they are not the problem.
 

ghostnote

Vincit qui se vincit.
The thing is that fake news appear on both sides. Sometimes people make mistakes, we are all humans. But most of the times stories are made up or are written with a biased opinion. Alex Jones and Alt Right have been using small "Alternative News" websites, which claim to be a gazette or journal, to "proof" many of their theories for almost a decade now. Today, everyone should know that soemthings wrong with Jones. But CNN got busted spreading false news too.

But the far right wing is not alone with this. The left wing, while commonly more educated, does a similar thing to enforce their points: By claiming the moral highground, just because something sounds unfair, it can't get into action as they would like it to be. For example equality of outcome. It's just based on statistics and fairnes, not if someone is the right person for this position. It eliminates the need to get good at something. Same goes for political correctness. There can't be a civil discourse without freedom of speech to name the problems society is facing. People like small left wing dictators who violently try to shut up what they think sounds unreasonable are as misled as their right wing brothers who do the same.

The problem here, doesn't matter if Trump or Brexit, is that the alt right picks up a topic and the media and the liberals, instead of analyzing, disecting and riposte it like a civil person would do, they choose to call all of them nazis like a child. If you have a political point in which you believe in, then argue with intellect and common sense, not ideology. I think that's what we need today, more integrity and more role models.
 

Soundhound

Senior Member
This false equivalence is exactly how Donald Trump got elected. As he said of the racist gathering and protests of same in Charlottesville "there are very fine people on both sides".

Of course the left overstates, of course the left cherry picks, any political argument will find elements of this. To choose to see equivalence between how the right do it and how the left do it, is to render yourself utterly ignorant of what is going on. This is how fascists come to power, it is how Hitler gained popularity.

The right wing has been promoted by a political propaganda machine encompassing Fox News, right wing radio and alt online morons for a long time. The NY Times, LA times, Washington Post, NPR, PBS etc may to varying degrees have liberal leanings, but they are news gathering news organizations. If you find equivalency between the two groups, you are ignorant, willfully, dangerously ignorant. And ignorance is the death of democracy.



The thing is that fake news appear on both sides. Sometimes people make mistakes, we are all humans. But most of the times stories are made up or are written with a biased opinion. Alex Jones and Alt Right have been using small "Alternative News" websites, which claim to be a gazette or journal, to "proof" many of their theories for almost a decade now. Today, everyone should know that soemthings wrong with Jones. But CNN got busted spreading false news too.

But the far right wing is not alone with this. The left wing, while commonly more educated, does a similar thing to enforce their points: By claiming the moral highground, just because something sounds unfair, it can't get into action as they would like it to be. For example equality of outcome. It's just based on statistics and fairnes, not if someone is the right person for this position. It eliminates the need to get good at something. Same goes for political correctness. There can't be a civil discourse without freedom of speech to name the problems society is facing. People like small left wing dictators who violently try to shut up what they think sounds unreasonable are as misled as their right wing brothers who do the same.

The problem here, doesn't matter if Trump or Brexit, is that the alt right picks up a topic and the media and the liberals, instead of analyzing, disecting and riposte it like a civil person would do, they choose to call all of them nazis like a child. If you have a political point in which you believe in, then argue with intellect and common sense, not ideology. I think that's what we need today, more integrity and more role models.
 

ghostnote

Vincit qui se vincit.
This false equivalence is exactly how Donald Trump got elected. As he said of the racist gathering and protests of same in Charlottesville "there are very fine people on both sides".

Of course the left overstates, of course the left cherry picks, any political argument will find elements of this. To choose to see equivalence between how the right do it and how the left do it, is to render yourself utterly ignorant of what is going on. This is how fascists come to power, it is how Hitler gained popularity.

The right wing has been promoted by a political propaganda machine encompassing Fox News, right wing radio and alt online morons for a long time. The NY Times, LA times, Washington Post, NPR, PBS etc may to varying degrees have liberal leanings, but they are news gathering news organizations. If you find equivalency between the two groups, you are ignorant, willfully, dangerously ignorant. And ignorance is the death of democracy.
You can't compare Hitler's time with today. Society has learned that this way of "politics" is the wrong way and it indeed ended in horrifying events, which we all agree on should never happen again. Same goes with charlottesville, horrific event, committed by a mental person. Not by someone with a stable character and moral views. Yet this doesn't mean that all conservatives back his actions or try to relativize them. Calling all nazis is simply immature.

If there would be anyone honest and credible in the pre elections, on both sides, with integrity, then Trump would never got elected. Today too many people skip going into politics and keep concentrating on their careers. And righteously so, which sane person would try themselves getting into politics?

I think the reason Trump got elected is that people secretly want an anti hero in office. Just like women prefer the bad guy doing the right things. Anything else feels dishonest. There's nothing good in seeing the good guy achieve nothing. Many people feel that way about Obama.

And yes, ignorance is the death of democracy. Just like the liberals and conservatives didn't take Trump or Nigel Farage seriously. They had to be cautious and debate them with facts, try to educate people trough the media. Instead, they were putting them down, insulting them and thus making them succeed.
 

Soundhound

Senior Member
An astonishingly ignorant post. Obama didn’t g eat anywhere because the right wing did everything they could to obstruct him. He also made the mistake of trying to deal reasonably and fairly with a racist, corporatist party. The same mistake the democrats have been making for the last two generations.

The idea that people have learned that to see beyond political posturing is utterly idiotic. Trump was elected the same way Ronald Reagan was elected, just on steroids.’Reagan sold the profound lie that gvmt is evil and the free market will cure all, with a nice helping of racism to heat the pot. Trumps pitch was exactly the same. All lies, and the ignorant fox news watches bought it book line and sinker.

And saying that the murder in charlottesville was just. one deranged person is the most dangerous idea of all. It provides the basis for ignoring the rampant racism that this country was built on. Trump made it okay to be overtly racist again.

The ignorance that allows people to see both sides the same is the ignorance that is allowing trump to obstruct justice every day, in plain site. Absent fox news, this asshole would have been impeached a long time ago. With fox news rendering tens of millions of people incapable of ubderdtsnindg what is happening, he may very well be able to run out the clock and get away with myriad crimes.

False equivalency is the greatest danger we face, those who promote it are a to actively assisting in the destruction of our democraxy.


You can't compare Hitler's time with today. Society has learned that this way of "politics" is the wrong way and it indeed ended in horrifying events, which we all agree on should never happen again. Same goes with charlottesville, horrific event, committed by a mental person. Not by someone with a stable character and moral views. Yet this doesn't mean that all conservatives back his actions or try to relativize them. Calling all nazis is simply immature.

If there would be anyone honest and credible in the pre elections, on both sides, with integrity, then Trump would never got elected. Today too many people skip going into politics and keep concentrating on their careers. And righteously so, which sane person would try themselves getting into politics?

I think the reason Trump got elected is that people secretly want an anti hero in office. Just like women prefer the bad guy doing the right things. Anything else feels dishonest. There's nothing good in seeing the good guy achieve nothing. Many people feel that way about Obama.

And yes, ignorance is the death of democracy. Just like the liberals and conservatives didn't take Trump or Nigel Farage seriously. They had to be cautious and debate them with facts, try to educate people trough the media. Instead, they were putting them down, insulting them and thus making them succeed.
 
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ghostnote

Vincit qui se vincit.
An astonishingly ignorant post. Obama didn’t g eat anywhere because the right wing did everything they could to obstruct him. He also made the mistake of trying to deal reasonably and fairly with a racist, corporatist party. The same mistake the democrats have been making for the last two generations.

The idea that people have learned that to see beyond political posturing is utterly idiotic. Trump was elected the same way Ronald Reagan was elected, just on steroids.’Reagan sold the profound lie that gvmt is evil and the free market will cure all, with a nice helping of racism to heat the pot. Trumps pitch was exactly the same. All lies, and the ignorant fox news watches bought it book line and sinker.

And saying that the murder in charlottesville was just. one deranged person is the most dangerous idea of all. It provides the basis for ignoring the rampant racism that this country was built on. Trump made it okay to be overtly racist again.

The ignorance that allows people to see both sides the same is the ignorance that is allowing trump to obstruct justice every day, in plain site. Absent fox news, this asshole would have been impeached a long time ago. With fox news rendering tens of millions of people incapable of ubderdtsnindg what is happening, he may very well be able to run out the clock and get away with myriad crimes.

False equivalency is the greatest danger we face, those who promote it are a to actively assisting in the destruction of our democraxy.
Yes and now the democrats are blocking Trump after the midterm elections. That's called checks and balances, seperation of powers, great thing. You can't compare an elected President with an Dictator. Obama was reasonable and if he could run a third time, he would've won. Sadly Biden didn't took part in the last presidential elections. Society is like Hegel said, constantly learning trough its mistakes and Trump is just one of them. Better times will come.

Statistics say that wealth and salaries have grown among all social classes, but not equaly. Enough to give an average men the chance to get out of poverty. What did you expect? That every postman will someday drive a Porsche? I agree that the rich have to pay more taxes than the average citizen, but the situation regarding poverty is 100 times better now than compared to the 60s. If you want to blame poverty today, blame globalization, which Trump is against btw.

It was just one deranged person who committed a crime. There have also been many fights between left and right extremists. These have to be stopped by the police. The rest was just demonstrating which isn't against the law.

It's not FOX news which decides if Trump gets impeached, it's the state under the rule of law. You're taking FOX too much as an excuse. It's the problem we are talking about in this thread: People are sticking in their camps, unable to discuss any simple topic with their opposition, regardless how rational it might be and you are one of them Soundhound.
 

sIR dORT

Active Member
People on the right are stupid, not all people, try not to put words in other people’s mouths. You need a certain level of ignorance, selfishness, venality and resentment to fall for the right wing sales pitch. A mendoza line of stupidity/cupidity. Trump supporters are a lost cause, they are to be ignored, life is too short to argue with stupid people.
If you assume that anyone and everyone who disagrees with you is stupid and ignorant, you are not worth having a conversation with. The beginning of a good conversation is being willing to listen to others, not assuming their worst intentions, and responding in a respective manner without saying that they're racist or stupid. Comon man, @ghostnote hasn't said you're "astonishingly ignorant".
 

Soundhound

Senior Member
Where do you get your news? You’re doing exactly what right wing propaganda wants you to do, seeing equivalence between the right wing obstruction of Obama and the democrats trying to investigate a criminal in the white house. Astonishingly ignorant. Where do you get your news?


[ QUOTE="ghostnote, post: 4391578, member: 5574"]Yes and now the democrats are blocking Trump after the midterm elections. That's called checks and balances, seperation of powers, great thing. You can't compare an elected President with an Dictator. Obama was reasonable and if he could run a third time, he would've won. Sadly Biden didn't took part in the last presidential elections. Society is like Hegel said, constantly learning trough its mistakes and Trump is just one of them. Better times will come.

Statistics say that wealth and salaries have grown among all social classes, but not equaly. Enough to give an average men the chance to get out of poverty. What did you expect? That every postman will someday drive a Porsche? I agree that the rich have to pay more taxes than the average citizen, but the situation regarding poverty is 100 times better now than compared to the 60s. If you want to blame poverty today, blame globalization, which Trump is against btw.

It was just one deranged person who committed a crime. There have also been many fights between left and right extremists. These have to be stopped by the police. The rest was just demonstrating which isn't against the law.

It's not FOX news which decides if Trump gets impeached, it's the state under the rule of law. You're taking FOX too much as an excuse. It's the problem we are talking about in this thread: People are sticking in their camps, unable to discuss any simple topic with their opposition, regardless how rational it might be and you are one of them Soundhound.[/QUOTE]
 

Soundhound

Senior Member
I am saying exactly what i think is true.I am listening very carefully to what is being suggested and reacting quite honestly. I have never said i thought the intentions were bad, i said the positions taken are born of ignorance.

If you assume that anyone and everyone who disagrees with you is stupid and ignorant, you are not worth having a conversation with. The beginning of a good conversation is being willing to listen to others, not assuming their worst intentions, and responding in a respective manner without saying that they're racist or stupid. Comon man, @ghostnote hasn't said you're "astonishingly ignorant".
 

sIR dORT

Active Member
I am saying exactly what i think is true.I am listening very carefully to what is being suggested and reacting quite honestly. I have never said i thought the intentions were bad, i said the positions taken are born of ignorance.
Maybe so, but you're language tells a different story. You obviously have a right to do all those things, but you are doing so in a manner that seems very hostile to opposing opinions, and you seem to shove your opinion down a bit, even if you are saying what you think is true and reacting honestly. Saying that anyone/everyone on the right is ignorant and has fallen prey to right-wing propaganda is not a great statement. Everyone? That's a stretch. All of these are your opinions and you seem to think that you are always right without considering the possibility that you may be wrong. But you may be more open than you seem. Anyway, I don't want to get too into this cause this is a music forum after all ;)
 

Soundhound

Senior Member
Don't worry, it's a politics subform, there is a real wide open atmosphere here. It sometimes gets out of hand, I have most hard line right wingers on ignore, I don't have time for that nonsense.

And of course I don't mean every single person is to be described that way, that is never true. But I do believe that the overarching idea of a wide swath having been rendered ignorant and fearful by right wing media over the last couple of generations is absolutely true.

Donald Trump would never have lasted this long in office in an era without Fox News propping him up. But then, without Fox News and the right wing media, he would never have been elected. Nixon was a duplicitous, racist, anti-semitic nightmare, but next to Donald Trump, he was Churchill.



Maybe so, but you're language tells a different story. You obviously have a right to do all those things, but you are doing so in a manner that seems very hostile to opposing opinions, and you seem to shove your opinion down a bit, even if you are saying what you think is true and reacting honestly. Saying that anyone/everyone on the right is ignorant and has fallen prey to right-wing propaganda is not a great statement. Everyone? That's a stretch. All of these are your opinions and you seem to think that you are always right without considering the possibility that you may be wrong. But you may be more open than you seem. Anyway, I don't want to get too into this cause this is a music forum after all ;)
 

chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
I’m on ignore because I worship the God King Trump, even have a Shrine with my beloved discrete audio synths surrounding him.
Incense fills the Air with the sounds of Curtis and SEM Filter Chips.

82B6524A-916B-43B2-B6EB-3773576B999F.jpeg
 

WaveRider

Active Member
People on the right are stupid, life is too short to argue with stupid people.
Good sir, I suggest keeping your boorish manners in check. Our friend from NY requests you please adopt a more civil tone. If you can't be civil, I dare say he may need a change of ascot due to moisture from heat under collar.

Perhaps a bit of brandy will help calm the nerves.

Thank you and good morrow.
 

chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
Oh c’mon, SHound means it affectionately.
He’s been nice forever until Trump won.

I have a niece who won’t speak to me until I swear to vote for one of the candidates offering higher taxes and free stuff.

So some folks are still traumatized, but I blame fake news, and that jack off Brennan. He even convinced me Trump did something.
I mean I didn’t like the fact a Former Head of the CIA that lectured me on politically correct terminology by not identifying the enemy, or went to be another Avenetti on CNN, but certainly he had proof..NOT.

A lying con artist that knew he could help sway the Suburban voters in the Mid terms. It was brilliant but the backlash from this will be overwhelming.
And I hope that vertical piece of shit goes to jail.

So SHound fell for the fake news and lying Liberal Obama appointees.
Then again so did I. The difference is I’m seeing the truth, not what I wish it was.
Clappers already got ahead of the others by saying Obama started the whole con job. So he’s not going down, actually I don’t think any of them will go down.
If Hillary and her phone smashing server bleaching liars got off, it’s proof that it’s the same old song.

So be nice to SHound.
He’s fun when he snaps out of the Fake News Spell.
 

TheNorseman

Active Member
Exactly, you have to take it easy on Soundhound, he's fragile to say the least. Like many on the left, he feels that it is his birthright for everyone to agree with him. You can't be offended when he pops off in a hissy fit.
 

TheNorseman

Active Member
I’m on ignore because I worship the God King Trump, even have a Shrine with my beloved discrete audio synths surrounding him.
Incense fills the Air with the sounds of Curtis and SEM Filter Chips.

View attachment 20270
I like your shrine, but with all due respect, we already have the Trump shrine, it's the oval office. Hail the God King Trump! May his legacy last through eternity.